Sigh…You again. Didn’t you balk at responding to my “5 pages of bullshit” in another thread? Yet, here you go again, parsing another post of mine. I don’t know if I should be honored or get a restraining order.
That’s nice. Not what I was talking about. Maybe I should tell you about other countries that trample human rights and have state imposed religions so you can cry out that that doesn’t happen in this country, even though I wasn’t talking about this country in the first damn place.
Uh huh. I’m sure you are all the master race. I would put the SD above some forums, but simply because you are acolytes of Uncle Cecil doesn’t mean you are, by definition, an intellectual elite. Some people seem to have flown under the radar of whatever standards you presume. You, for example. I would save my highest praise for the Secular Web and, of course, B3TA.com because they can photoshop too.
Uh, first you admit that some forums aren’t as well moderated as this forum, then you take exception to a remark directed at those other lesser forums where the trains don’t run on time. Make up your fucking mind already.
Incidentally, you seem to have confused ECT with killing minks via rectal electrocution. Just part of your ass fixation, no doubt.
Your interest in my rectum is disturbing, incidentally.
And others are “admittedly better”, dipshit. In fact, I have so far mentioned at least three forums of that type.
You insist on imagining I am specifically talking about this board when it suits you and
You lecturing on intelligence is like Typhoid Mary on a speaking tour for the Center for Disease Control.
I guess that is a clever remark in whatever bizarro universe you inhabit.
And neither was I, dipshit.
Now you have taken a general comment encompassing experiences on some other boards to be a personal remark about you? Well, I will inform the academy of sciences that the Copernican system has been refuted: The sun actually rises and sets out of your asshole. Just homage to your ass fixation.
Lib, people are allowed to blow snot in GD when someone gets their dander up. They are even, as I understand it, allowed to call those other people irrational. David B did not call Nocktober stupid, but Nocktober certainly did call David B a jerk. Twice. Even after being (mildly IMHO) warned, with reference to the moderator status of the person giving the warning. Sorry, I’m just not seeing the complaint here, at least so far as it has anything to do with the operation of the board. If you want to take him to task for the “rational bone” crack, by all means help yourself. I just don’t see how you’re getting anything more than that out of these events.
Well, if they’re allowed to blow snot, they ought to be allowed to spit. I spent a lot of time reading not only that thread, but all of Nocktober’s posts, as you can see from the OP. He was just a new person who was a bit disoriented. All he did was cite a rule. Even other posters in the thread were asking David to calm down and trying to explain its OP to him. I believe that Bup and others have specified the facts of the case.
People who have known David for a long time know that his Collounsbury-style belligerence and hostility are not really threatening, but new people can’t be expected to know that. He did not say that he was speaking in an official capacity. Instead, he coyly referenced his title under his name. Gaudere even said that she believes he did that to cite his experience, not his authority.
If he wanted to give an official warning, he should have done so. I don’t know how you will ascertain now when he’s expressing himself as a member and when as a moderator. Of course, if you stay on his good side, you won’t have to worry about it.
Mykeru, God forbid I tell anyone how to post, but maybe you could’ve said: I was only speaking to other moderators on other boards. Sorry for the confusion.
But if you want to keep overreacting and throwing around your oh-so-erudite insults, when a simple explanation would do, knock yourself out.
Not exactly the words themselves, but the context in which they were offered. There are innumerable cases where donning the mod hat and doling out a such a warning are warranted. I took issue with this particular one for reasons already given. So if you did something similar, [I didn’t see it] I don’t necessarily have any problem with it.
The other point I was trying to make was in response to Gaudere’s parallel of DavidB’s comments and those that might be made by an ordinary poster. I would agree up to the point where he went mod, and in IMHO, retroactively changed the tone of what he had previously posted to the thread. I would have taken them to be ordinary comments, but then the OP gets chastised for disagreeing in a fairly ordinary way. To turn the previous parallel around, if someone pointed out the ‘don’t be a jerk’ rule to an ordinary poster in GD, I don’t think it would seen as offensive.
Well since I am a recent poster to the SD and have no idea who these personalities are, particularly David B, good bad or indifferent you can consider me to be objective. Or clueless. Whatever.
It seems to me that Nocktober popped on asking for refutation of the HET. He asked for the main disproof. However, it seems that some posters interpreted this, somehow, as a challenge to disprove the HET.
The very first response to Nocktober is a smart-assed non-answer “I think it’s called physics.”
Now, I have seen Cecil asked questions posed as “What’s the deal with X” with no further elaboration. Rather than question the questioner, Cecil took it as an opportunity to explain X and then give the deal on X.
It seems someone could have done this with the HET. It doesn’t take much research to be able to come up with all the permutations of the HET, including the The Concentric Spheres Hollow Earth Model , The Polar Holes Hollow Earth Model, The Inverted Earth Hollow Earth Model , The Complete Shell Hollow Earth Model.
Don’t want to do that sort of work? Fine, then don’t reply to the damn topic. Now in short order Tangent, X~Slayer(ALE), scr4 approached the topic before David B piped in with with his little buzz-kill:
Obviously this moderator thinks he was challenged to disprove a theory rather than what the poster obviously was fishing for, which are points of rebuttal.
Then Nocktober indicates that he is a not a proponent of the HET, he just wants information on it:
Isn’t that what the SD is about? Isn’t that why people write to Uncle Cecil asking for the deal on stuff, even when they may not know the details. Imagine. If they knew that they might not be asking in the first fucking place.
Then some people go into a little jag on Philosophy of Science, which indicated they might have read the cliff notes for C.G. Hempel, but really doesn’t address the point.
Now, before Nocktober can respond, David B pipes in again, his response rife with all sorts of unwarrented assumptions that indicate, at the very least, that a bran muffin now and then might not hurt:
Bzzt! David B is assuming that Nocktober is a proponent of the HET? Why?
Then he asks “Is there a single logical bone in your entire body?” for which the logical response would be to ask if David B. has recently had a CAT-scan to detect some reading comprehension and don’t make assumptions bones in his body.
Of course, Trigonal Planar makes the same point:
[quote]
Guys, I’m not sure what the big fuss is here. I certainly didn’t get the impression he was posting in support of the HET. I figured he was just thinking “Hmmm, I wonder how they know the earth isn’t hollow?”
and so does Ogre:
But it’s too late. The ignorance fighting pirhanas need to be fed. Man, cow, old tire, what’s the fucking difference? Teeth must be sunk into flesh:
David B:
Illogical? Saying that one doesn’t understand what the HET is is illogical?
Mmm…newbie. Dinner is served.
David B:
Come clean? He just said he didn’t know what the HET was. That hardly makes him a proponent or needing to “come clean”.
But then Nocktober does explain, even though there is already blood in the water:
and
OK, it’s clear now, right? No harm, no foul. People then proceed to have an intelligent discussion about the HET.
Of course, David B realizes he looks rather like a dipshit and, denied of something to snack on, can’t just let the conversation go on. He has to get a bitch slap in:
Uh, it seems the only person who didn’t know what Nocktober was talking about was David B. Everyone else, for the most part, got it. David B is a little put off because, despite his expections, he doesn’t get to chew on a Hollow Earther. Oh fuck it, he’ll just chew anyway.
Nocktober:
Sounds good to me. But probably strategically unsound. Since David B had already decided to give this poster a hard time, the particulars of why he should be given a hard time are irrelevant. That’s right, it’s about to become a conversation about the conversation:
David B:
Oooh…scary. Of course, being a moderator means never having to say you are sorry, or admit the fact that you were insulting first. Nor does it mean that respect has to be something earned. It’s just something due to you by virtue of the “moderator” under your name, no matter what sort of provacative prick you are.
That’s not moderation. That’s being a drunk dipshit who pisses on your shoes and then, when you complain, whips out his plainclothesman badge and asks “what’re you going to do about it, punk?”
Fuck. I knew what this thread was about when I saw the title, and I as yet had no idea Nocktober had been banned.
Here’s the timeline, in short.
[ul]
[li]Newbie asks honest question soliciting information about a well-known crackpot theory.[/li][li]David B assumes poster is trying to push a crackpot agenda, reacts jerkishly and insultingly.[/li][li]Flustered newbie thinks, “Jesus, what an ass. I’m gonna go try Infoseek.”[/li][li]Flustered newbie says, “Don’t violate the don’t-be-a-jerk rule.”[/li][li]Newbie gets banned.[/li][/ul]
David B’s question, “Do you have a logical bone in your body?” was much more insulting than anything Nocktober said, and was delivered first, by a moderator no less, one of those people who are in charge of enforcing the rules.
I personally don’t blame him for calling David B a jerk. How is it just to ban a person for slinging what can GD-legalistically be described as a non-insult (he didn’t even refer to David B directly - he merely described the rule) AFTER he was already the recipient of a direct insult (David B’s “question” referred directly to the poster and not the post?)
Yeah, I also think the logical bone comment was an insult, and not a veiled one either.
Reverend Mykeru, I also thought your post referring to sycophant mods referred to the SDMB mods. That’s how it read in context, even with the reference to the Coulter boards, and I know how to fucking read. Kindly learn how to fucking write, or how to politely explain what you really meant when people do not understand you.
My mistake. Nocktober did refer to David B as a jerk. After the treatment he’d received from David B, however, it was entirely justified, and completely natural.
Well Nocktober wasn’t exactly innocent and I know that there were reports from one of his posts in an insult thread… so maybe, just maybe the mods/admins know what they are doing even if we don’t always see it all…
I am not sucking up… I think that sometimes the line can become blurred since their status as a mod/admin is known in every post… and well… there will always be doubts because of it. But on the whole, I think that they apply the rules (whether you agree with them or not) fairly consistently…
**
This comment in GD is completely outrageous. The proper comment would have been,
**
Seriously, though, David B. does, occasionally, dish out clear personal insults in GD and this was obviously one of them. I recall, for example, another instance where he suggested that a poster had forgotten to take his meds.
Mods can certainly post as posters but they are always mods. Like it or not, they set an example. They ought to be setting an example of how posters should behave rather what they can get away with. Assuming, arguendo, that “Is there a single logical bone in your entire body?” is licit, so is “Is there a single functioning brain cell in your entire head?” Even if this kind of thing is acceptable, I really don’t think it something the mods ought to be encouraging by example.
You know, it’s funny. If a moderator or admin responds and explains a situation for another mod (who isn’t able to get to the board during that particular time), it’s “circling the wagons.” If nobody responds, I bet we’d hear, “See, they aren’t even responding so you must be right.”
The situation has been explained here already – several times over, but let’s try one more time from the horse’s mouth.
Newbie comes in – looks like a troll. I ask him to post the theory he wants people to knock down (seemed like a reasonable request – we can hardly respond to a “theory” if we’re not sure what he’s talking about; and for anybody who says, “Duh, the hollow earth theory” – you act like there is only one; there are plenty of crackpots out there who have their own versions). He responds that he didn’t post it because he says, “For the obvious reason that I don’t expect you to be an expert on a theory you’ve never heard of. Sheesh.”
Contrary to the way Reverend Mykeru interpreted that (above), I did not – and still do not – see that as him admitting HE doesn’t know the theory. Instead, he’s basically said that he’s not going to post it even though he wants us to disprove it, which pretty much makes zero sense. So I responded and pointed out how illogical this was. And yes, GASP, I pointed it out using SARCASM! How horrible! Oh, Pit me! Pit me now! (Whoops – there I go using it again.)
Ogre came in and started speaking for Nocktober, which I thought was a bit odd unless Ogre had some of the proof for psychic power that we’ve been looking for. But I allowed for the possibility that Nocktober was just clueless about the proper way to post on a message board and said he could come out and say what he meant – which he hadn’t up to that point.
He finally did. So I made what I thought was a pretty good suggestion: “For the future, I would suggest that you should put information like this in the first post so people know exactly what it is you’re talking about and why.” Ooooh. Well, that’s certainly worthy of being flamed. How dare I suggest that he explain his position in an OP?
What’s his response, to tell me not to violate the “don’t be a jerk” rule. Hmmm.
Now tell me, how many people with 20 posts cite the “don’t be a jerk” rule and then start calling other people in the thread “mini-mods”? Yes, my “troll” antennae perked up again. But I had no proof positive, so I decided to be a nice guy and NOT give him an official warning. To be sure, I debated it, going back and forth in my own mind. But I came down on the side of not doing it, instead putting it in the form of advice. And I happen to think it was good advice – a newbie calling a Moderator a jerk and trying to tell him what the rules are, no matter what message board you’re on, just is not a smart thing to do. I almost went with using the number of posts instead of the “Moderator” tag, but frankly there are some people here with a lot of posts who are still fairly clueless, so I decided not to go that route. Yes, I added the bit about how next time it wouldn’t be so friendly. Why? Because I knew that I’d have to put on the dreaded Moderator Hat then, which I’d decided not to use so far.
His response? Insult me and say he’s leaving. Now just how smart is that? As Gaudere said already several times, we took his word at face value.
I hope this little look at the facts of the situation enlighten those of you who have been making your own guesses. If not, eh. At least I have another Pit thread to lengthen my lead over manhattan.
All I read by Noktober’s comments were that if someone didn’t already know what the ‘hollow earth theory’ was, they wouldn’t be in a position to provide the best disproofs of it. If he had stated ‘the magic bullet theory’ or ‘the faked moon landings’ theory, I think enough people would understand what he was talking about to provide decent rebuttals.
I also think, David B that you are deing disingenuous by claiming that you didn’t know what he was talking about with the ‘hollow earth theory’, I think you read the original post, and were foaming at the bit to get into a crackpot.
But how can somebody disprove it if we don’t know precisely what he was talking about? As I said, I’ve seen more than one “hollow earth theory.” Doesn’t it make sense to be specific?
Well, who am I to argue with you about what I was thinking? Obviously you know best. :rolleyes:
shrugs Maybe one who took the time to read a bit about the board before posting. Now let me ask my own rhetorical question: How many people with 20 posts should be insulted or assumed to be trolls for their inevitable faux pas? Just for the record, asking about the shortcomings of creation science is a common question, and aside from needing to clarify this purpose, the hollow earth query was very much the same.
I’m disappointed to see that there weren’t other infractions of which we were unaware. I guess it’s just the case of one mod taking it upon himself to act like an insufferable wanker. Congrats, DavidB, you have proven you can cyber-bully a newbie.
Uh, why? It was specifically in the context of refering to experiences on other boards.
My first paragraph was a general statement about not acquiesing to mods.
My second paragraph referred to a variety of forums I am familiar with .
My third paragraph mentioned a specific other forum.
The forth paragraph, which begins "Makes me interested in seeing what the “community” is like on a board attached to a site that has been “Fighting ignorance since 1973”, indicates curiousity about the working of this particular board.
I then did a little dialogue mocking the typical run ins I had with some moderators.
The paragraph after that referred to the forum on Ann Coulter’s web site.
So, according to you:
Uh huh, and, as we know, reading is fundamental.
Really, that’s the only other board I referenced?
Could have fucking fooled me.
I know how to write at least as well as you know how to read, sweet cheeks but I am not responsible for someone who reads the paragraph:
“I think you realize that the greatest blow to the American judicial system in the 1920s was the creation of scapegoats in the form of Sacco and Vanzetti”
And then gets mad because they read it as “you…blow…goats”
Polite? Oh no, sorry, I had to give that up in the ongoing battle against stupidity. Mine has been going back longer than 1973.
[
b] David B**
Fair enough…as fair as the guy in AZ that shot Sikhs after 9/11 because they thought they looked like muslims, therefore, terrorists.
No, that interpretation is trained and is based on your assumption that he was some sort of HET proponent that was challenging you to disprove the HET. You seem to be the only one that arrived at that conclusion, perhaps informed by your a priori assumption that he was a troll.
But by that point, and anyone can read the thread, the discussion had moved on to legitimate discussion where Nocktober was getting what he wanted.
Your frustration seemed to be that the conversation did not proceed according to your preferences. Well, tough titties. Not everyone is completely conversant in how to frame a discussion and since the poster was new you could have lead him into a discussion without the snotty tone you adopted. In any case, once that was done you just couldn’t resist getting another slap in.
So, GASP, don’t get bent out of shape when someone greets your sarcasm with the response that you are a jerk.
You know, I have joked about this being the most paranoid forum I have yet come across. It just keeps getting less and less funny though.
Perfectly reasonable. More than adequate justification for your snarky comments about “logical bones”
Incidentally, I just had a flash memory about the book “How to committ suicide in South Africa” wherein Steve Biko kills himself by bouncing around inside his cell.
GASP that SARCASM sure is fun.
Anyway…
Not to mention the ones that killed themselves falling down six flights of steps.
Oh, where was I? Oh yeah, perfectly reasonable stuff…
Obviously you disagree with that rule. Come out of the closet man. Join your brethren. Be a jerk. Be proud.
Holy shit! More xenophobic Straight Dope paranoid. Quick, someone dump thorazine in the drinking water!
Imagine, someone reading the rules/FAQ before posting.
Imagine someone having familiarity with other forums. I myself was accused of being a sockpuppet/resurrection because I knew vB code, which some people seem to think is proprietary to the SD forum.
Don’t forget to check the closet and under your bed.
Oh yeah, you’re a sweety pie.
A primal struggle not seen since Dr. Strangelove battled his own hand.
So this “don’t be a jerk thing”, is it a rule or not?
Actually, that isn’t what you said. What you said was:
As soon as you were challenged you not only put the moderator hat on, but acted as though it was always on.
And besides, if there was insulting done, you got there first. You can’t at the same time set a bad example, need to have the rules of the forum you are supposedly moderating read to you and them cop an official position.
Oh, goodie. Now I have a guy with 51 posts telling me the rules and telling me what I thought. I’m sure glad I bothered to spend the time to post an explanation. :rolleyes:
Does it ever occur to people that maybe, just maybe, I know the rules a little teensy bit better than you do? And that maybe, just maybe, you shouldn’t be so certain of yourselves?
Never mind. I already know the answer to that.
As for what Tony said:
Yes, I have. See, that’s why I said I know there is more than one of them, which is why I wanted clarification.