Police should not shoot people based on the vaguest suspicion that they might possibly be reaching for a gun.
That doesn’t change the fact that some cops will, as evidenced by this video, and you have absolutely no way of knowing at first interaction whether the cop you’re dealing with is that trigger-happy or not.
So what I’m saying is, when you’re in a situation like that where you have no way of knowing whether the cop will interpret reaching into the car as “HE’S GOT A GUN!”, it is in your self-interest to behave as non-threateningly as possible and not to engage in any behavior that could by the most ridiculous leap of logic you can think of be perceived as a threat.
If you end up in a scenario such as this man did and you get shot because of a non-existent threat the cop thought he saw, it’s not your fault. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t consider the possibility of it happening and take steps to minimize your risk.
I hate that y’all are making me do this but Smapti is being perfectly reasonable here and a bunch of y’all are being assholes. Furthermore, he’s correct. Stop berating the poster and berate his posts, when and if they deserve it.
It’s not your fault if a cop shoots you for following his order to show him your license, but you can do the ‘I’m a little teapot’ thing and freak him out so bad he drops his gun. Or something.
If this asshole hadn’t shown himself, over an extended period, willing to excuse just about every possible incidence of police aggression and over-reaction, i’d be willing to cut him a little slack in a thread about police aggression and over-reaction.
So what you’re saying is “Maybe he’s right about this, but I believe he was wrong about an unrelated incident that happened thousands of miles away under completely different circumstances, so I’m going to give him shit for what he’s saying about this scenario anyway”.
Not if they panic, no. My dear father, however, gave wise advice on how to behave towards a person with a gun, which is not to make them nervous in the first place. Which is why, when I was stopped by the po-pos for speeding and he asked to see my license, I made it a point of saying “My wallet is in my hip pocket - are we cool?” before making any sudden moves.
This does not mean that this guy did anything deserving of being shot. AFAICT he was 100% in the right. That didn’t help him, though.
On the SDMB this is known as “slut-shaming” or something.
It’s not your fault if a cop overreacts and shoots you when you’re legally in the right, but you can make it clear through words and body language that you mean no harm and intend to cooperate.
No, asshole, what i’m saying is that, even in a situation when the cop is clearly and unambiguously in the wrong, your main priority still seems to be to focus on what the victim did to contribute to the situation.
Also, you’re constantly willing to excuse cops based on the notion that they can’t be blamed for nervousness or over-reaction in contact situations, but don’t seem willing to extend the same consideration to a civilian who might also be nervous (and therefore not in a position to think carefully and take the “proper” precautions) in a similar situation.
As for you, in discussions about the police, we already KNOW what we’re dealing with here.
So even though we agree that the cop was in the wrong here, you still want to assert that I’m wrong for suggesting that there are things you can do to avoid being shot by an unhinged cop. Would you prefer to simply throw up your hands in the air and declare that there’s absolutely nothing you can do to prevent yourself from being shot and you shouldn’t even try? I prefer not to be so pessimistic.
False. I have stated that the officer in question will likely claim that that’s why he shot. I don’t believe that that justifies it.
False, as per above. I’m saying that ideally, both parties should remain cool and rational in order to prevent boondoggles like this from happening.
I got pulled over a few weeks ago. I rolled down my window and waited for the cop. He said, “license, registration and proof of insurance please.”
I responded, “yes sir,” and immediately reached for my glove compartment where my registration and proof of insurance is (are?). But wait – isn’t that where illegal guns are routinely stored in hot cars? Luckily he let me go with a warning and not a bullet to the face. But what should I have done?
“Sir, as you can see my hands are on my steering wheel. Sir, do I have permission to reach for my glove compartment, in which I assure you, there is no gun. Would you care to cock your service revolver and hold it to my temple while I pull this maneuver off? I won’t mind, really?”
According Smapti, that wouldn’t have been a bad idea.
You should lock your car when you leave it unattended. It’s not your fault if someone breaks into your unlocked car and steals your things, but you have to admit it would have been more wise of you to lock it.
If you cheerily handed our your credit card number to someone who calls you on the phone claiming to be a legitimate enterprise, that is very unwise. That does not mean the fraudster is not at fault.
It is perfectly reasonable to say people should take appropriate actions to protect themselves from criminal activity.
You’ve got it in for Smapti, which is your prerogative. He may have a history in these sorts of discussions (I’m not great at remembering such things.) But the position “it is wise to protect yourself from wrongdoing” is not an unreasonable position.
American cops are frightening. I would be awfully cautious around them.
Every time I’ve been pulled over and asked for my registration and proof of insurance, I have told the officer “They’re in the glove compartment, I’m going to open it and get them out” before raising my hand. According to the ACLU, this is a good idea because it assures the officer that you’re willing to cooperate and lets him know what you’re about to reach for when you put your hand somewhere he can’t see it.
If I happened to have a weapon in my glove box (I don’t own a gun, but I have on occasion had a kitchen knife in my glove compartment for innocuous reasons), I would likewise say “There’s a (weapon) in the glove compartment, would you like to open it yourself?” in order to assure the officer that I wasn’t reaching in there with the intent to use it on him.
According to you, these would have been bad ideas.
It’s a bit like an MRA douchebag saying that women should be careful of their surroundings when they’re out alone at night, to reduce the likelihood of being attacked. He may have a point, but you sure as shit don’t need to hear it from him.
What i would prefer is a society where, if a cop told me to get my license, i wouldn’t get shot for attempting to obey his instructions.
I would prefer a society where the burden is not on me to “prevent [myself] from being shot” by people who are paid to protect the peace.
I would prefer a society where assholes didn’t define “pessimism” as a belief that cops shouldn’t shoot me even if i’m obeying their instructions.
And i would prefer a society where, instead of focusing on what we can do to protect ourselves from trigger happy assholes in uniform, we do what we can to keep those trigger-happy assholes out of uniform in the first place.
My point exactly … but again, **Smapti **seems to think that doing precisely what the cop asked me to do was a bad idea without breaking into a speech about how I really, really, really don’t want to be shot for doing it.
And, crazily enough, even though I drive a Mustang, I don’t get pulled over by the cops so often that I have a speech readily prepared to avoid being shot for nothing.
Is it your position that women, or people in general, shouldn’t be careful when they’re alone at night? You can definitely make the case that a person shouldn’t have to be careful when alone at night - but again, we live in the world that is, not the world that should be.