Well, I think it’s true that the human body never evolved under conditions of having blood-stream injections of concentrated killed virus parts. It’s reasonable to wonder what the effects might be.
The question has been answered, by actual studies. It’s been looked into, and tested, and researched. So we’re okay.
But the question, on the face of it, is not a bad one.
For those who are interested in a fairly comprehensive review of the risks of multiple immunization in children in the US, this is a fairly comprehensive review although a few years old. I don’t know of any data since then showing increased risk but this committee specifically looked at the risks of other infections (ie generally weakened immune system) as well as autoimmune diseases and could find no correlation. However, they concluded that letting parents vaccinate on an alternative schedule could be considered since it would overall lead to more vaccination. It’s a dense read but a good one.
I had all my shots as a kid, except one: whooping cough–the specialists believed it was risky due to my condition. I also had respiratory problems, and if I caught whooping cough from an unvaccinated child, I probably wasn’t going to be long for this world. So I had to rely on everyone else to be responsible members of the community.
This Wakefield bullshit has set things up so that everyone thinks they get to have an opinion. It’s not about individual rights–it’s about the social contract. If you want the goodies that come with being in a society, you have to hold up your end of the bargain. It’s basically on the same level as tax evasion.
Minds blown.
Ok, sorry this thread has had far too little controversy for a pit thread. So in the attempt to inject (pun intended) some life into it I’ll extend my pitting.
I pit whoever it was in the US intelligence world that authorised using a Doctor doing Vaccination rounds to gather info on the people living in Osama Bin Laden’s compound in Abottabad. There has been considerable blow-back with people in the North West Frontier Provinces now refusing vaccinations as they believe (with some justification) that it could be a CIA plot. It’s also lead to at least 63 aid workers being murdered on suspicions of them being spies.
This cowardly bureau chief, or whoever he or she was has probably put back the elimination of Polio from the planet by 20 years. No it was almost certainly not Obama, the article above states it would have been made at a lower level than that.
It simply wasn’t worth it, I’d rather have Osama Bin Laden still free than the potential cost of 100’s of thousands of lives from the effect this has had on vaccination campaigns in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
I refuse to believe that with the entire resources of the US three letter agencies at their disposal that they couldn’t come up with a better way to identify who was in the compound. Use a drone, light part of the compound on fire and see who comes out, try and get a maid in there who’s working for you, or pay off some Pakistani police to do a doorknock. There simply had to to be a better alternative than using vaccination workers to do your dirty work.
Whatever faceless middle managers authorised this, they deserve to be forced to spend the rest of their lives volunteering in hospitals in the NWFP and they still wouldn’t come anywhere near close to atoning for what they’ve done. Unfortunately as far as I can tell having a health worker perform espionage for you doesn’t appear to be a war crime, but it is the lowest of the low, sickening and cowardly. And the US is a lesser nation for the fact that it had to stoop so low to “get Osama”.
Oh and the worst part of it? It didn’t even work, they used other intelligence to work out who was in the compound and never managed to obtain any DNA samples.
Oh boo-hoo. You got your precious feelings hurt because somebody doesn’t agree that your “perfect” way is the best in all cases.
Idiots like you are guilty of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. You would prefer that people not get vaccinated at all, if they’re not going to follow your ideas.
Grow up, you worthless pieces of slime!
Sorry you’re the worthless slimeball. Read the papers linked above, delaying immunisations is more dangerous for your child and other children. The CDC schedule is the consensus of thousands of pediatricians using decades of study. It’s not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than any delayed schedule you arbitrarily decide on because of your “feels”.
Yeah, a delayed schedule is a bad thing - but I’m much more concerned about the kids who won’t be vaccinated at all than the ones getting delayed shots. There’s bad and then there’s worse.
That’s easy, they’d blame Big PharmaTM of deliberately causing autism in children so that later on they could profit from selling a cure.
You, know, just like they created HIV.
You’re not very good at this, are you? I mean, your invective is fine. It’s just that your comprehension is so low you have no idea what invective to use on what occasion. You just learned off some stuff and chuck it out at random.
You’re like a guy who’s learned off the perfect funeral eulogy, but is so tone deaf he delivers it at weddings, birthday parties and Xmas parties.
You asserted that the individual vaccinations became popular only after Wakefield was debunked. I have told you my own recollections that this is not correct, and given a link to an article about someone else’s memories which again demonstrate that you are not correct.
I was under the impression that the incidence of vaccine-preventable diseases is so low because kids are getting vaccinated on schedule. 
I am certainly not linking you with antivaxers, but one of their most “eloquent” arguments against getting immunized is that “gee, these diseases are so rare, why do my kids need to get the shots?”. :smack:
It is everybody. Every single body. Because no vaccine is 100% effective. So even if my measles vaccination worked perfectly, and I’ve developed the maximum immunity possible, I can still get measles. I probably won’t, but I still can, if exposed to the virus. So your choice is putting the unvaccinated at risk, the delayed vaccinators at risk, the can’t be vaccinated at risk, the failed vaccinated at risk and the fully vaccinated at risk. That’s literally every single person.
This is also true. I’m not going to fight the delayed vaccinators as hard as the antivaxxers. But I do want them to be aware of the increased risks, not just to others, but to themselves, and not just from the vaccine preventable illness, but the risk of seizures that we know is associated with delayed vaccination.
If they don’t know that, then it’s one of those decisions that seems fairly reasonable. If they know that and still choose to delay, well, then, we know what kind of people they are.
A pharma cure would have generated revenues in the hundred-billions in the last decade; exactly what are they waiting for?
(There’s only one effective “cure” for autism - EIBI/EIBT - and it’s nothing Big Pharma can package and sell or profit from in any way.)
The problem is that your argument is logical and reasonable, two things anti-vaxxers have proven to be militantly impervious to.
My mother was born and grew up in a Third World country in the 1940s. She is fanatical about vaccines, because she’s seen what life is like without them. My first kid got her MMR a few weeks after her first birthday (the recommended age here is 12-13 months, she had a fever one week, we couldn’t make the weekly shot slot the next) and my mother could not believe that we hadn’t got her down to the doctor the day she turned one. This is a kid who wasn’t in a creche or playgroup, wasn’t being exposed to a lot of other kids, no measles or mumps around, and yet my mother was made incredibly nervous by the idea of her being vaccinated even a few weeks after the first possible instant. That’s what seeing the diseases in action will do to you.
Vaccine delayers don’t bother me anywhere NEAR as much as non-vaxxers. Just mathematically, say the average lifespan is 80: someone unvaccinated spends anywhere up to an extra 79 years and 10 months as a potential illness victim and vector. A kid who gets the shot three months late spends three extra months as a possible victim/vector (and it’s possible that the parents wouldn’t have vaccinated him at all if the delayed schedule wasn’t available). It’s not great, but it’s not at all the same thing, and getting equally infuriated about both is just plain silly.
I don’t understand the value of individual inoculations. Apparently, the point is that kids do not get exposed to foreign bacteria all at once, except they do all the time. People don’t think about just how many they are exposed to when Mommy and Daddy breathe on them, Fido licks them, or–God forbid–they crawl on the floor. A shot of MMR is nothing like a walk in the park, especially if you put the kid down on the ground. Dozens or hundreds of exposures, all at once. :eek:
I was born in the US in the 50s, and as far as vaccines were concerned it was still a Third World country. We had shots for tetanus and smallpox and I was just in time for polio, but I got immunized for measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, whooping cough, and I think diphtheria the Third World way. And I wasn’t even “sickly,” just a normal kid.
As mentioned above, anti-vax sentiment seems to arise in people who have benefited from vaccinations so they never got those diseases.
If there is absolutely anything to any part of vaccination contraindications, it is, or eventually will be found to be in the massive shotgun of vaxes given in combination, especially the first few rounds. Most dog breeders, for example, strongly recommend spacing out puppy vaxes, because they’ve seen pups sicken and die from getting the full slate in one day.
Infant immunizations have increased considerably in the last decade or so. Conceding absolutely nothing to the anti-vax morons, I can think of no reason except convenience and cost to the medical profession not to space out infant and toddler vaxes a little bit. It seems very much to be a “can’t hurt, might avoid even rare complications” sort of move.
Yeah, it’ll probably only kill a few kids. Nothing to worry about.