If not, Dopers who have studied ancient Greek would be good too.
I got a t-shirt in Athens that has a quotation on it which I think is from Homer’s Iliad. The lady in the shop wasn’t able to explain it, even though she’s Greek - probably like me trying to read Old English.
I’ve transcribed part of it below - could anyone give me a translation, even rough, and maybe point to where it’s from? (you would not believe the hassle of typing all this in with Character Map.) I’m hoping the copyright on the Iliad has expired by now.
Apologies for any transcription errors - the text on the shirt is written either in ancient Greek characters, or “tourist” font – I’m not sure which – and my knowledge of Greek extends to the alphabet as used in mathematics.
MHNIN AEI[symbol]D[/symbol]E, [symbol]Q[/symbol]EA, [symbol]G[/symbol]H[symbol]L[/symbol]HIA[symbol]D[/symbol]E[symbol]W[/symbol] AI[symbol]L[/symbol]HO[symbol]S[/symbol] OY[symbol]L[/symbol]OMENHN, H MYPI´ AXAIOI[symbol]S[/symbol] A[symbol]L[/symbol][symbol]G[/symbol]E´ E[symbol]Q[/symbol]HKEN, [symbol]G[/symbol]O[symbol]L[/symbol][symbol]L[/symbol]A[symbol]S[/symbol] [symbol]D[/symbol]´I[symbol]F[/symbol][symbol]Q[/symbol]I MOYE [symbol]Y[/symbol]YXA[symbol]S[/symbol] AI[symbol]D[/symbol]I [symbol]G[/symbol]POIA[symbol]Y[/symbol]EN HP[symbol]W[/symbol][symbol]W[/symbol]N, AYTOY[symbol]S[/symbol] [symbol]D[/symbol]E E[symbol]L[/symbol][symbol]W[/symbol]PIA TEYXE KYNE[symbol]S[/symbol][symbol]S[/symbol]IN OI[symbol]W[/symbol]NOIE[symbol]S[/symbol]I TE [symbol]D[/symbol]AITA, [symbol]D[/symbol]IO[symbol]S[/symbol] [symbol]D[/symbol]´ETE[symbol]L[/symbol]EIETO BOY[symbol]L[/symbol]H, EI OY [symbol]D[/symbol]H TA [symbol]G[/symbol]P[symbol]W[/symbol]TA [symbol]D[/symbol]IA[symbol]S[/symbol]THTHN EPI[symbol]S[/symbol]ANTE ATPEI[symbol]D[/symbol]HE TE, ANAI AN[symbol]D[/symbol]P[symbol]W[/symbol]N KAI [symbol]D[/symbol]IO[symbol]S[/symbol] AXI[symbol]L[/symbol][symbol]L[/symbol]EY[symbol]S[/symbol].
It looks like the first verses of Homer’s Iliad. The translation goes like this :
Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought
countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send
hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs
and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the
day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first
fell out with one another.
And which of the gods was it that set them on to quarrel? It was the
son of Jove and Leto; for he was angry with the king and sent a
pestilence upon the host to plague the people, because the son of
Atreus had dishonoured Chryses his priest.*
Jove seems to be Zeus (got me confused when I read the translation, never heard of Zeus called Jove).
The text font was probably a tourist font, nevertheless (and while I’m not an expert) I deem that it comes very close to the font the ancient greeks really used (angular, isn’t it ?). I’ve seen more than enough of this souvenir T-shirts.
Did you like your stay in Athens? Likes / Dislikes ?
It is indeed the Illiad. It’s interesting that the first word “MHNIN” means wrath. The first written word in western civilization means wrath – somebody has got to be able to make something out of that.
Thanks for the responses - I knew I’d get the answer here.
Dr Matrix - d’oh! Thanks for the info. If you look at it in logarithmic terms, I was only off by one though
Without straying too far into IMHO or Cafe territory - is the Illiad a “ripping good read” that a semi-educated 21st century male like me would enjoy, or is it mainly interesting for historical reasons, being the first ever(?) written work?
As for the oldest written work, (after some Googling) the Epic of Gilgamesh seems to hold that title (ignoring the heiroglyphics of the Egyptians, since they weren’t literary works). The website I found dated it from 1200 BC as opposed to the ~700 BC composition (not writing) of the Iliad.
I know this isn’t IMHO, but jtull was kind enough to translate and did ask the question, so…
We only had 1 day in Athens. We were warned to expect a big, smelly, polluted city, choked with traffic - and unfortunately, that was our impression. It was sad to see the cradle of civilization reduced to hoardes of street traders selling cheap knock-off consumer goods, and rude taxi drivers trying to rip us off.
That said, of course we climbed up the hill and were in awe of the Acropolis and all that surrounds it. I felt my own ignorance at knowing so little about these magnificent edifices - I wished they’d provided more little panels with tourist info on them, for those of us with no classical education. It was so frustrating to see the Temple of Nike, the Acropolis, et al, yet to know so little about them. We were only in Athens for one day, so we couldn’t take one of the tours (no time) and of course that is not long enough to do any city justice. At the top of the hill, where the Acropolis stands, we felt the strongest gusts of wind most of us had ever felt - it was if the gods were angry at us. It added even more majesty to the place.
On the other hand…Santorini…OMG ! Heaven on earth.
The catalogue of ships was definitely the low point (Chapter II?), but I thought the whole thing was pretty dull. Personally, I think the Aeneid was much more interesting. Though it borrows heavily from both the Iliad and the Odyssey, the pacing is smoother and it makes more sense as the Romans were considerably more “modern” than the Greeks. But that’s just my opinion, and could be a result of the particular translations I read.
chula - as jtull guessed, I’m referring to the angular Greek alphabet font used by touristy places in Greece to show how authentic they are. I would guess it’s angular because of necessity - it’s hard to make rounded strokes when carving in stone.
** DarrenS **
I remembered it wasn’t IMHO 1 sec after I pressed Submit…
Still, I appreciate the feedback. It’s exactly like we see our fair city :D! Santorini is nice too (haven’t been there for some years).
Odyssey
I’t a far better read than Iliad, since the latter is mostly based in battles and such, while you could easily say that Odyssey is a big adventure. Still, I expect you could browse through Iliad easily, just for historical reasons.
Jove is another name for Jupiter, who was the Roman equivalent of Zeus. I’d assume that would be the fault of the translater, rather than the text itself, as Rome was barely existent at 700BC (if at all. I think it was around 743 BC that Rome was supposed to have been founded by Romulus…)
I’m reading the Iliad right now, and I find it’s vastly improved if you imagine that all the characters are deadly robots. Lasers and motorcycles make a more interesting mental picture than spears and chariots.
– somebody has got to be able to make something out of that.