Any suggestions for talking an idiot into giving up her baby for adoption?

The mom’s a piece of work herself. She’s a sweet person, and I actually like her, and she’s a lot more intelligent and resourceful than she gives herself credit for, but she has ISSUES (that’s letters the size of the HOLLYWOOD sign).

She grew up in absolutely attrocious conditions. The worst day of her own family (public assistance, drugs, etc.) was probably better than the best day in her own childhood. Her own mother was retarded (she was high functioning [could cook and sew and such] and the retardation was more from being malnourished than anything genetic, but she was/is essentially very simple), her father was inhumanly evil (physically, emotionally and sexually abused his daughters) and the family lived in grinding poverty (sharecropper’s shacks, in a tent for a while, etc.). She was date raped when she was a teenager, got pregnant, her father told her he’d kill the baby if she kept it, so she went to a Holyroller home for unwed moms (this would have been in the late 60s), had the baby, and when the first adoptive parents fell through she actually ended up caring for the baby for a month, after which she had to give it up and of course it was wrenching. She married a stockbroker from a well to do family and things were good for about twelve hours, then her husband’s alcoholism accelerated, his investments and businesses all tanked, a margin call left him far less than broke, his family lost all of their money as well, and by the time she was pregnant with her youngest son she considered abortion herself because the marriage had fallen apart. She still feels terrible guilt over it and the kid uses it against her (“Well if you’d had your way I would have been cut out! = Gamebox bought with rent money” type of stuff).

About this time her firstborn son found her. He’d been adopted by a dysfunctional holyroller couple and, like so many kids from ultra ultra conservative environments, was into drugs, and that wasn’t a pleasant reunion. He’s since been to prison and gotten into lots of trouble but seems to have at least semi gotten some of his shit together, at least enough not to call her screaming in the middle of the night.

She feels terrible guilt for the way her children have been brought up, largely because she admits she married their father mostly for his money and sees this as her fault. (Her ex-husband, who never paid child support even when he was jailed for it, is one of those puzzling people who never works, drinks heavily, and yet somehow never seems to miss a meal- always has somebody to sponge off of, still talking about how he’s going to make his comeback in commodities 20 years after he lost his license, etc…) But it’s hard to feel complete sympathy for her; for example, for years and years she lived in Panama City Beach, FL, because “I’ve always loved the beach and I have to have one thing in my life I like!”. She worked as a waitress/bartender usually at nights while her kids were at home alone, and from May to September her tips were great. But every year the same story: she didn’t budget her summer income, bought a bunch of CDs and videos and games and other shit she could have lived without, business died after Labor Day and stayed dead until May by which time she was living on assistance and working 2 nights a week, and she was caught twice working for under-the-table cash at various jobs while on assistance and not reporting it and that got her in huge legal trouble (in fact it gave her a criminal record, which is why she can’t qualify for an apartment), and when the $10,000 fell into her lap she could have cleared her record by paying the state back the $5000 she owed them but of course pissed it away in about two months instead without paying any bills. When called on doing stuff like this and how to avoid it her fallback is always a pitiful melodramatic “I’m just stupid uneducated poor whitetrash! What do you expect!”
But anyway, her experience with adoption makes her hate the notion. As a born-occasionally Christian she has major problems with abortion. So the baby’s going to end up living in a kitchen drawer in the apartment while Dinah’s sets off for her collision course to sell cookies and shoestrings door to door for that UFO cult she’s destined to join.

I would almost be willing to take this baby myself if I were more firmly established and settled and could stand babies. Middle class southerners have always had a standby for what to do with unwanted babies, but in the first place black maids are a lot more expensive now and in the second this family’s not middle class. Such a pity such a pity such a pity. I hope this kid will get a break.

Not to my knowledge. She’s a major pot smoker (as were her parents) but says she’s giving it up while pregnant.

Good lord. This kid would be better off being raised by wolves.

Yeah, you think I’m kidding.

Hey, the Romans made out pretty well.

The timing’s even bad for that!

So give the baby to the Elks, huh?

Lou Reed wishes he wrote that.

This is an awful story for everyone involved. And, much like Guin, I’m wondering how all these people find you, Sampiro.

I hate cats.

I don’t have any suggestions to make. I just want to say that you are my first man-crush.

I feel as if I am leaping into the lion’s den, please be gentle with my upholstery.

As a practicing Christian who believes that life begins at conception, (but who also believes that God gave people free will and each individual will have to answer for the choices they make, I would walk beside any woman who had to push her way through a fundie anti-abortion mob to get to the clinic doors) I would encourage her to follow through with the Christian counselling. There are so many infertile couples longing for a baby, and IME they are willing to pay for housing, daily necessities, food, health care, plus a stipend at the signing away of parental rights. There are lots of places, Christian Crisis Pregnancy Centers, who would be more than pleased to assist this female who has no business with a pet to care for, let alone a child. They will do their best to save her soul, and it sounds as though she is exactly the kind to lap up that kind of attention. Good food, a safe, comfortable place to stay, a healthy lifestyle at least through her pregnancy, and lots of positive attention and strokes, she would undoubtedly be in 7th heaven! (oh geez, was that a pun?) I imagine that, were she to hang on to the baby at all, it would not last for long, she hasn’t a track record for turning over any new leaves in her life, and while it might take a short bit of time, I believe that with calls to Children’s Protective Services and the police, the child would be removed and her parental rights terminated. Quite frankly, from the manner in which you describe her, I don’t think she would last throughout the first post-natal period. After several nights of screaming baby and no sleep, she would no doubt happily hand the babe off to the first willing pair of hands she encountered.

I say these things coming from a not too dissimilar background, and I live in a small Bush town in which a largely Alaska Native community is rife with FAS/FAE, physical abuse, neglect, and rampant child sexual abuse. I have played a small part of several children being removed from their biological homes (most single maternal whack jobs with crazy ass boyfriends in and out at all hours, participating in all manner of inappropriate activities around the children) and I have been doing this long enough to have seen some of those kids mature into functioning, educated and career oriented adults.

The only sympathy I feel is for the unborn child. If you, and others, care enough that this is a bad enough situation to warrant your involvement, and if she has dug her heels into the concept of no more abortions, it might work if you took the longer way around the situation. Work with your options.

It bites, it really does. Oh, the stories I could tell if I had Sampiro’s turn of a phrase, and very few have happy endings. However, if one child makes it out of the dung heap, then it is worth the heartache and frustration.

My empathy’s for you, Sampiro, you seem like such a sweet, tender hearted soul.

(Oh, and btw, a pregnant woman should minimize her contact with felines, and never ever change the litterbox/clean up messes, but you all knew that already!)

Actually, that (and the stipend) is probaby the single best angle to approach it from. People who would make her the center of attention and remove her from having to work for a few months would probably be the best days of her miserable little life. Thanks- I’ll see if there’s an agency in central Alabama.

Actually I’ve never heard this. What’s the danger?

Toxoplasmosis, if kitty is indoor/outdoor. But undercooked meat may actually present more of a threat.

As Dead Flowers mentioned, this girl is at risk for Toxoplasmosis, commonly passed through feline feces. While the girl may not become noticibly ill herself, there are grave consequences for the fetus.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/factsht_toxoplasmosis.htm

I bet if you check the yellow pages under Abortion you will find the Anti-abortion counseling as well. Trust me, you get those church ladies involved, that girl won’t know what’s happening until it’s over!!!

And wouldn’t it be fabulous if, conversion or not, if the girl connected with folks who are able to help lead her out of her quagmire? Even the lowest of the low sometimes get their shit together! :smiley:

(Says the woman who made some very foolish decisions when she was much younger, but has learned from her mistakes and made some large changes!)

It’s funny, right here I was expecting the next part to read “Sampiro’s family,” and then when you said something else I realised I never checked who was posting so I scrolled up to see.

Go figure.

And if you’ve been around cats for a very long time, you’re probably immune to toxoplasmosis anyway. There’s a test you can take to find out if you’re immune.

I’m not minimizing any contact with my indoor cats, being nine weeks pregnant. My husband is changing the litterbox, but I’m still cuddling with them as much as I want to and always have. I’ve also had cats, both indoor and outdoor since I was a child, so more than likely, I’m immune to it. For the most part, the toxoplasmosis thing is overblown. (of course, I could just be bitter because I’ve had no less than three people tell me we have to get rid of our cats because of the baby…and one of those has a newborn baby with a pit bull. Shyeah. That’s like taking advice about anti-drug programs from a chronic pot-smoker.)

E.

Birthright is an organization with chapters all around the country. The Deacon at my church served as a volunteer for the chapter here until she left to move back to Missouri. (I miss her something awful!) What I know of Birthright is what I heard from her but knowing her as I do it must be a very good sound organization that truly tries to help the women who reach out to them. Just a thought.

Sampiro I know you get sick of hearing this, but you do seem to be a weird magnet. Not that I’m complaining because we get the most entertaining stories imagineable out of it, but, man do you seem to attract them!

Here’s my take…

First, I don’t think the government is interested in taking children away at birth if the parent isn’t using drugs or alcohol (which is sounds like she isn’t). They won’t intervene until she endangers the child. So that’s out. But your friend and the rest of the family can keep an eye on things, and if she does endanger the baby, they can drop a dime.

Second…(to respond to the original question) would she consider an open adoption? I’m not sure how many couples would be interested in signing up for it with her, given her erratic life thus far. But an open adoption would give her visitation privileges. It sounds like she doesn’t want to raise(or isn’t capable of raising) the child, but doesn’t want to sever all ties. This would give her contact but no say over the day-to-day environment, major child-rearing decisions or even daily exposure. After a while, she’d probably lose interest or at least realize that she isn’t the right person for the job at this point in her life, and would just sort of fade out of the baby’s life.

Obviously, this isn’t the ideal situation, but it is infinitely better for the baby than being raised by someone who appears to have absolutely no stability or direction. She would have no legal right or responsibility, but could take on a role that would resemble that of an aunt or whatever. And if she goes wiggy on 'em, they pull the plug. Simple as that.

I don’t know anyone personally who’s done this, but maybe there’s a doper that has some experience with this. To me, it seems like an option that just might appeal to her.

As a Buffalo native I feel oddly proud to have a itty bitty connection to all of this. Even if it is a backhanded slam!

My step sister and her husband adopted a boy from Viet nam, my old boss went to Russia for two adorable little girls (what a tale that is) and I hear about this stuff. There are so many potential parents out there in stable loving homes. Somehow this bimbo needs to meet some of them and maybe, just maybe she will see the light.

Good luck to your friend.

I had a friend (who turned into a huge flake and we are no longer in touch) but in 1990 she and her then husband (with whom I am still in touch) entered into an open adoption agreement with a super flakey pregnant girl. They paid for everything, and she got a LOT of money from them even after the baby boy was born. The weirdness factor comes into play when you know that the same flakey pregnant girl had, the previous year, given up a full sibling (sister) to my friend’s husband’s ex-wife and current husband in another open adoption. (We were all living on this island at the time, and it all gets a little inbred!) The birth mother, who lived in another state but came up here for the end of her pregnancies, was around sporadically for the first few months of each child’s life, then wrote increasingly fewer letters for about a year (to both adoptive families) and has long since dissapeared from view. The brother and sister still stay in touch, they spend some vacation time with each other, and for the most part it has worked very well the two children and their adoptive families. Having a good attorney is key in getting the paperwork written in a manner in which the birth parent has the right to knowledge of the child (photos and letters) but not too much hands on contact with any decisions after the infant has been handed over.

In our state a birth mother has up to one year to change her mind and recind the adoption, but if she can be placated during that time, again IME, if she’s a dyed-in-the-wool flake, she will probably have moved on with her life long before that time is up.

The backstory of this particular birth mother is not dissimilar to the one in the OP, and she did indeed lap up the money and attention like a cat lapping up cream. When it came to diapers and middle of the night feedings and the crying and fussiness of a newborn, well, that didn’t fit in with her ideas of being a parent, and got in the way of her lifestyle. If she is smoking pot the ob/gyn can have her tested for that along with the regular bloodwork, and if there comes a time when measures need to be taken, it will definetly play a part in a judge’s decision as to if the child needs to be removed.

As for toxoplasmosis, the risk is minimal, but it does exist. I have always had cats, and I simply didn’t change the litterbox, and always washed my hands after petting the kitties. (Yes, the litterbox was changed, just not by me!)

Show her the first half of one of those Nanny 911 shows, where the kids are real hellions and after 3 minutes, I at least, get the urge to kill them.

Make sure you don’t show her the end where the kids actually behave.