Any WWE fans in the audience? (Part 1)

Martin, it seems like everybody in the upper midcard gets a push which lasts for about a month, then they plummet. It’s happening to Cesaro presently. Dolph Ziggler, Mark Henry and Wade Barrett went through similar periods.

Now it looks like the Wyatts are taking the plunge. Harper and Rowan lost clean to Show and Henry after losing 90% of their matches to the Usos. I’m pretty sure Bray will beat Jericho this weekend, but then I remember how creepazoids like Raven and Kevin Sullivan usually lost all their main event matches. I guess when the heel is doing too good a job at being a heel, the bookers don’t think they need to be pushed any further.

I still like Bray’s promos. He comes across as the single-minded zealot who forms an opinion based on the flimsiest of evidence and goes to Hell with it. Maybe since he won’t have Harper & Rowan at ringside this weekend, he’ll have a new disciple, somebody from Jericho’s past, jump the Fozzy frontman.

Raven is a good example, he definitely was effective despite almost always losing straight matches.

I really hope whatever happens they utilize Luke Harper appropriately, because that guy is probably one of the more underrated in ring talents in WWE right now.

I’m not sure what’s going on with Show/Henry. I had just noticed that neither of them has really been on TV in awhile, and now they’re both back at the same time in a tag time. I know they also are both two of the hire paid wrestlers, I wonder if WWE just felt like they weren’t getting their money’s worth so just pushed them both into the tag division without any clear idea as to where they are going.

I wholly agree with everything here.

I’ve been saying for months (since his loss to DB which in the loss was a GREAT storyline) that he now has to win to keep any relevance, and he is the epitome of the “talk the talk, but doesn’t walk the walk”

Wow! Cena got crushed. Rusev wins and Nikki turns (told ya)! Lesner looks unbeatable.

Fine Summerslam indeed.

Brie vs Steph–an example of everything that’s wrong with WWE today. As soon as Triple HHH came down I knew what was going to happen.

Ambrose vs Rollins–an example of how great WWE can be IF anyone ever figures out how to book the end of a match.

Cena vs BroooOOOOCK LESSSSSSNAR–If Cena shows up on Raw tomorrow I’ll be all #lolcenawins. The only way the booking of that match works is if Cena doesn’t show for at least a week. Two would be better, after NOC is best.

The lumberjack match was fanfuckingtastic. If every PPV from now on only had Rollins vs Ambrose, I’d still buy it. Well, continue to pay NINE NINETY NINE per month. Kind of sad that Hulk Hogan’s promos are more about the WWE network than him, but he needs to pay off his ex-wife somehow.

After all that buildup, I thought Cena vs Lesnar would be a more competitive match, but it was basically an early F5 followed by 16 German Suplexes and another F5. I guess Cena gets a nice long vacay for his roadkill role.

Damn, Steph looks HAWt in that leather outfit. I’m still bored with the angle however, as it looks like we’re in for more Total Divas fodder for the next few months. Waaah, my twin sister turned on me and she still has my Barbie dolls, waah.

Bray evens the score with Jericho, but I think something sick needs to happen. I know WWE wants to adhere to PG standards, but this feud needs some blood and fucked up shit. Jericho shocks Bray with the jacket, and Bray clocks Jericho was the kerosene-filled lantern, then FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!

WWE seems intent at pulling on the patriotic heartstrings with the Rusev win. They even had a color guard with the Stars and Stripes (instead of which Zeb calls “bars”). At least Rusev’s victories aren’t squashes any more. I’m thinking he’ll feud with Roman Reigns next, to prime double R for the WM showdown with Brrrrrrrock.

Did anybody else have problems with the feed? I kept getting freezes in large screen mode whenever there was a lot of activity, especially during the Rollins/Ambrose match. I guess all those bodies moving around clogged up the bandwidth.

Cena/Lesnar: I was so inordinately excited for this match and it left me feeling…eh. It was the same with the Lesnar/Taker match, it was so damn boring. I quick suplex here and there (x16) and then stand and wait. I wanted an actual match. I guess I understand the angle that it was “pure domination” and all that but I still wanted them to actually wrestle. Although I have to say I love Lesnar, he’s so goddamn huge it’s scary.

Ziggler/Miz: A Ziggler win? In the WWE? AND HE HAS A TITLE??!? WHAAT? That being said I love it. Good for him and good for the WWE giving us something we as fans want

Paige/AJ: A decent match! These ladies are one of the few who can wrestle so I was impressed with the showing. I’m also glad Paige won. Also there was lots of lesbian sexual tension and…you know…that’s always fun.

Ambrose/Rollins: There are no words for this match. It was more main event-y than the main event. The two main guys were fantastic. The lumberjacks were fantastic. Damien Sandow being a lumberjack while dressed as a lumberjack was fantastic. Goldust is my hero. I loved every second of this match.

Rusev/Swagger: What a weird match. It was disjointed and I see absolutely no point in Rusev winning. It does nothing to advance his storyline or character.

Jericho/Wyatt: Decent, if forgettable, match. I’m glad Wyatt won cleanly because he needed it badly for his character

Stephanie/Brie: Call me wrong saying Steph wouldn’t actually wrestle, although she didn’t do much. I am 100% fine on the Nikki heel turn because it puts a diva angle that’s interesting outside of the title run, plus it culminates in a Nikki/Brie match at 'mania??

Reigns/Orton: I hate Roman Reigns. Just hate him. He is John Cena 2.0 in every way shape and form. Only uses 3 moves? Check. Has a super-reigns moment in each match? Check. Fights for the good of all people? Check. Has an unimpressive finisher that he botches 4 out of 5 times? Check. If he is taking the belt from Lesnar than he has a looooong way to go.

Cesaro/RVD: What are they doing to poor Cesaro? Making him MORE of a heel? No one is buying this, have him face up and get back to storylines.

At last night’s TNA show Bully Ray told the locker room that he was leaving the company (for those that don’t follow TNA, Bully Ray is better known as Bubba Ray Dudley). I’ve read that Devon is on a per appearence contract with TNA. If so, could the Dudley Boyz return to WWE? It would give a huge boost to the lackluster tag team division. Seriously, what tag teams exist right now?

The Usos
Stardust/Goldust
Rybaxel
Harper and Rowan

If I missed anyone, well, that shows how sad the tag team division is today.

Slater Gator, baybee! The tag division is in miserable
shape, though. I expect the Ascension to drop the belts in September and get called up shortly thereafter.

So, just finished watching the replay, and boy, did I call this one wrong. Here’s my post-mortem;

Ziggler d. Miz: Ziggler has been a jobber so long, I didn’t expect him to win, but it makes sense to have a face holding the secondary title since Brock is going to be on the top for awhile now. The big question is where Miz goes from here - if it were me booking it, I’d have him turn into an introverted, Sunset Boulevard-esque fallen star who’s convinced he’s still on top and freaks out when people don’t cheer for him the way they used to.

Paige d. AJ: Well, we’re now guaranteed at least one more title match between these two at NoC, which’ll be #5. And if AJ wins there, a sixth at HIAC.

Rusev d. Swagger by TKO: So, apparently a flag match is just a regular match where they raise the flag at the end, I.e. “every single match Rusev has these days”. The ending to this one was just weird - between the build and having the Army color guard present it seemed like a natural setup for a babyface victory, but then they just had Rusev camel-clutch his way into victory again (and what ever happened to the ref holding up the arm three times to make sure he’s out?) Hopefully this feud isn’t over - an “I quit” match somewhere down the road would be a good finale.

Rollins d. Ambrose: Well, at least I called this one right - the match went off the rails fast, Rollins made a run for it, and the Authority tried to intervene, though it was nice to finally see the “Kane marches out and the heel wins the match because he says so” setpiece blow up in his face, at least temporarily. As with the above, no way is this feud over yet - this needs to conclude with either a Hell in a Cell match, or a straight-up CZW-style hardcore brawl.

Wyatt d. Jericho: Bray gets his win back from Battleground, clean. Jericho is going on the road again with Fozzy after Night of Champions, so presumably there’s going to be a final blowoff there.

Stephanie d. Brie: The ending to this match was just stupid. Nikki turns for no good reason (I’m sure we’ll hear some promo tonight about how Brie was getting all the attention and SHE wants to be a star, waah waah waah) and we get yet another screwjob authority figure ending that makes the heel look like an ineffectual twit who can’t win a fight on their own. It’s a lot more fun watching a match where the heel wins decisively because they’re the better fighter (as seen in several other matches on this card) as opposed to one where the heel wins because the person running the company can openly and blatantly rig the match in their favor without consequences, especially when they’ve done that ending like fifty times since the beginning of the Authority storyline (which is now exactly a year old, and about four months past its expiration date) and when there’s no guarantee that the face ever will get their big win or the heel will get their comeuppance (and that’s why people responsible for writing the product should never appear on camera, but that’s a topic for another time.)

Reigns d. Orton: This one went about the way I expected it. I thought Orton was going to win for a second when they did the “RKO-counter-opponent’s finisher-counter-RKO-pin” spot that ends all of Orton’s matches these days, but they had the common sense to have Reigns kick out and get his victory. I like the blue details on Reigns’ tactical vest better than the green ones he was wearing previously, but they still both look silly compared to the plain vest he was wearing while in the Shield.

Lesnar d. Cena: I was expecting Lesnar to win decisively, but I didn’t think it would be that decisive. I thought the fight was over after that first F5, and what followed was less a match than it was an execution. I was worried for awhile that they would have Cena win somehow and then do a quickie job for Seth Rollins, but thankfully they had the common sense not to go with that. Going forward, I think we can assume Brock will make no more than three or four title defenses between now and WrestleMania (I’d say at NoC, HIAC, Royal Rumble, and Elimination Chamber), and whether it’s Reigns or Bryan who faces him at 'Mania I think really comes down to whether Bryan is capable of returning to the ring in time to win the Royal Rumble.

You articulated this much better than I could. If the heels never get their comeuppance then why should we watch?

The execution aspect is why Cena should not appear on Raw this week. He needs to sell the beating he took for at least a week before asking for the rematch.

As for Brock’s opponent at 'Mania, Triple HHH wants Reigns while Vince wants:

The Rock :smack:

Wasn’t David Arquette in the audience last night? Might as well give the belt back to him!

Cena has been missing Raw lately to film a movie, so he’ll probably be doing that, if he can crawl out of bed after all those suplexes.

I don’t know who could beat Lesnar, but it’s not Reigns. Two moves won’t take down the beast. If Cesaro was booked properly, he could do it, he’s strong enough and tough enough, but the writers are terrible.

My thoughts:

Ziggler vs The Miz: I was surprised because I thought the powers that be in WWE had written Ziggler off. However, he has been consistently getting huge crowd reactions for 2-3 months in spite of being story line buried. That’s the kind of the thing creative does listen to after some point, at least usually. It’ll be interesting to see if he can sustain momentum.

Paige vs AJ: I’m someone that thinks women’s wrestling is boring and doesn’t need to exist. However, this match was okay, decently wrestled and it only made sense for Paige to win this one in their rivalry.

Rusev vs Swagger: I really like Rusev in the ring, he plays a cowardly heel, a cheap heel, a monster heel, all in one, and he does it pretty well. He’s athletic, energetic, and he also can sell really well. I think Rusev is a genuine talent. Swagger on the other hand is a decent talent who has the “look” but no charisma, and a bad habit of seriously injuring other wrestlers (ask Wade Barrett.) I think Lana is good for what she is. I used to like Zeb, but he’s getting stale now, and his whole purpose was to speak for Swagger since Swagger cannot talk on a mic, but Zeb has fumbled his way through almost all his spoken word moments the past 2-3 months.

I suspect there’s a chance that this feud ends and they move Rusev in another direction. If not, I think Zeb’s days are numbered and Swagger’s may be too, at least as a singles competitor (I could see him becoming a dreg like Curtis Axel or something.)

Rollins v Ambrose: This was probably the best actual match of the night, and the lumberjacks were used to great effect, especially when they all turned on Kane. These two are really shining as the legitimate stars of the Shield, it’s unfortunate WWE has chosen to push Reigns more.

Wyatt v Jericho: Bray needed the win, the match was decently worked. I felt this match was a let down because I think these two are in the upper percentile of workers in the company and thus I was expecting a classic match. I felt it was just an average match that didn’t tell a very exciting story. If Reigns and Batista had worked it I’d be amazed because it’s way beyond their capacity, but for these two I was left feeling “you could have given us better.”

Stephanie v Brie: I actually thought this was decently wrestled. Stephanie used a lot of traditional “real” wrestling moves and showcased her “power” relative to Brie. I liked that it felt like two women wrestling a match versus a “women’s” wrestling match. The ending was storyline stupid, but this whole storyline is in and of itself pretty stupid. The Bella twins exist in WWE because of their physical appearance, neither can do anything creative or worthwhile and while Stephanie is normally a great heel she can’t carry this thing herself.

Reigns v Orton: I said this was going to be a big match for Reigns because it was going to be a lengthy singles match. Not a match where Reigns can “hide” in the format (due to it being a 8 person ladder match, four way match etc.) Reigns excels in matches where he can be off camera for a long time then come in and do his 2-3 moves and get a pinfall, because frankly Reigns doesn’t have the wrestling chops to do much else. I said if he could work a good singles match with Randy, there’s a chance Reigns will grow into the wrestler WWE is going to paint him to be.

I came away…unsure if that will happen. I’m not saying Reigns will never develop any talent, but he didn’t wow me either. I do have to say he seemed to work a “slowed down” match, and I think that was smart. I think he knew that a fast paced match would exhaust his move set too quickly and, for him, get repetitive. I don’t intrinsically hate slower paced matches (it’s possible to have a good slow paced wrestling match.) So I think strategically Reigns was correct to work slow. He took some decent spots from Randy.

Lesnar v Cena: Boring “wrestling” match, but told a great story. And it was a squash match, storyline wise the squash needed to happen but I’m surprised WWE pulled the trigger. That being said, because they had pulled the trigger I think Brock/Cena played it exactly as it needed to be played. Cena sold the pain being inflicted on him very well. Lesnar played the “animal toying with his prey” very, very well. This told a perfect story in the ring and that’s what wrestling is actually about, so it has to be regarded as a job well done, even if it was technically uninteresting. The novelty of seeing the company’s top face beaten in a 20 minute squash match in the main event of one of the Big 4 PPVs is worth the price of admission.

Long term view:

-I think Cena gets some props for doing this. Hogan, Michaels, Bret, Austin, Rock, I genuinely do not believe any of those guys, in their prime (and not later when they were just novelty appearances) would have willingly hurt their brand by losing this way. Cena did the job, probably only HHH would have been willing to do the same (but he’s basically part of management so it almost doesn’t count.)

-I head Heyman say in an interview Lesnar being a part time presence could be good for the WWE Championship. I actually think this may be true. One of my biggest criticisms of Hulk Hogan in his WCW days was he almost never appeared on TV. I stand by that criticism because Hogan held the WCW title for such a huge portion of his time with that company, that for months on end that belt would feel “asleep.” On the other hand, I do think you can overexpose a champion. And when the champion is himself already massively overexposed, I think that’s a bad thing. Cena has been on top for ten years, largely because the WWE has failed to produce a lot of superstars who can either avoid injury or avoid basically wanting to leave. Even just a year ago when CM Punk was still around I think Cena was at least sharing the spotlight to a degree. But over the past ten years WWE has lost Austin, Michaels, Undertaker, Edge, Jericho, The Rock, CM Punk…and they’ve really not replaced them with anyone (I know some of those wrestlers occasionally still appear.) I think over the past year the hatred of Cena was hitting an all time high because he was so overexposed with no one else to showcase.

Further, the WWE Championship was itself overexposed, and devalued. Largely because regardless of who was holding it (be it Cena or Daniel Bryan or even Randy) all they could do is rehash old feuds. I mean DB vs Kane has been done a lot, and that was the best they could do with DB’s time as champion.

I think WWE will actually benefit from having an unbeatable monster who only comes out for special occasions. We could see Brock do 5 title defenses against any number of guys and anything but a rematch with Cena will feel fresh because Lesnar has been out of the game for so long.

It’ll be interesting to see where WWE goes with it, but I don’t know that a champion who isn’t involved in Raw every week (which frankly is a show often poorly booked and ran, which hurts the important/prestige of the title and the titleholder to even be on when it involves something stupid) is going to be a bad thing. I wouldn’t want to see this go on for 5 years, but until WM31 I think it can do the WWE good to not have their champion on every single Raw doing bad storytelling because they run out of good ideas. I think the scarcity of Lesnar’s contracted wrestling appearances means creative has a lot of incentive to use them wisely, instead of how they use superstars like Kane/Daniel Bryan/Cena/Bray Wyatt who they can go to 2 times a week.

Looks like Dean Ambrose will be gone for a few months, as he’ll be playing a cop (who probably breaks all the rules) in a WWE-produced movie. In a way, that’s a good thing, as the feud with Rollins won’t flair out too early. I’m going to miss that crazy fucker though.

Rollins has become the Dark Lord version of Dolph Ziggler. Maybe they’ll have him feud with Reigns in the interim. Somebody has to make Reigns look good until he challenges Brrrrrrrock.

“What? It’s for charity!”

Dean Ambrose is a character I can get behind. Too bad he’s off to do the movie. WWE could use a good face right now.

After my complaint about the tag division they have two pretty decent tag matches. Hopefully they continue to build up tag teams.

Rusev finally got his via Mark Henry. This could be a good feud, especially if they plan on feeding Rusev to Lesnar.

I usually don’t like the idea of a part timer holding the belt, but in this case it may work. It will hopefully make the champion’s appearances special and elevate the status of the belt. Then they can build up the other belts and make holding them something special. Elevating the US and IC belts would lead to better midcard storylines and help make the next superstar.

And thanks to this thread I am now back into the current product. My wife thanks all of you!

That genuinely makes me upset because Dean Ambrose is the best thing to happen to the wwe in ages.

He made me laugh the second hardest* I have laughed with his “What? It’s for charity!” line. And can we appreciate Seth Rollins taking that bucket to the face? That hard to hurt like hell.

I think Mark Henry being the next foe for Rusev is a good call. He seems big and imposing and American…he’s also the only black guy Rusev DIDN’T face.

*Number one being when Bo Dallas did his victory lap around the ring and took out El Torito.

Ambrose’s character has just the right combination of technical prowess and Mankind-ish psycho insanity to make him great, and it’s a shame that they’ve decided to push Reigns over him, because an Ambrose/Lesnar match would probably be amazing.

I actually predicted they’d be doing Henry vs. Rusev way back in May, though I got the circumstances all wrong - I thought it’d be at Summerslam and that Rusev would be United States Champion at this point. (I’m actually surprised they haven’t had Rusev chase the US title, as a way of permanently proving that the US is inferior to VLADAMEEEEEER POOOOOTIN.)

I’m gonna miss Dean Ambrose. They’ve got lightning in a bottle with that kid; hopefully they’ll treat him right. Also, hopefully he’ll come down and beat the crap out of the announce table one day for dismissing him as “crazy, unstable, etc.” Unorthodox? Sure. Eccentric? Definitely. But there’s a real heart that beats in that wifebeater clad, frequently bandaged chest–even though Traitorface Rollins has been doing his best to rip it out and curbstomp it. He’s a real person (well, he’s a fictional character, but you understand what I mean), with real feelings; marginalizing those by calling him crazy would be irritating, even if this wasn’t the WWE announce table and they only did it once rather than a non-stop repetitious patter about it during the entire match.

Speaking of the announce table, it was rough sledding on last night’s RAW, even by the low standards of JBL/Maggle/Lawler. JBL especially… over at Uproxx, where I usually keep an eye on the live thread once I’m caught up to live, the joke was that he was drunk. I don’t think he was drunk, but he was unusually obnoxious last night, and nobody could find his off switch.

To end on a positive note: [del]Aleksandr[/del] Rusev should be giving some sort of seminar on How To Sell to the rest of the locker room. Last night’s was a pretty solid Raw on balance, with some weak and WTF? spots thrown in because WWE, but I think the only time I jumped out of my chair, clapped, and squeed for joy was when Rusev actually sold an injury that happened on another episode of my wrassleshow. Maybe he’s hanging out with Dean, I dunno. But seeing him do that made me suddenly invest right into this guy’s future. He’ll have to (IMO) shed the foreign heel gimmick eventually, and (definitely) get out of this streak angle somehow, but he’s got a better idea of what it means to tell a story in the ring than most of the roster right now. Na zdrovye, moi droog!

Yeah, I felt the same way about Rusev after his match with Big E in which Rusev showed he could really sell. He already had all the in ring energy, strength, “look” etc, but make him turn out to be able to sell like a champ and he’s golden. Not to mention he’s also very good at playing the cowardly heel, and in pretty much the most old school way possible–body language and facial expressions, much like a wrestler from before the age of constant promos.

I feel his streak isn’t as big a deal for him either way. Since he’s openly played the cowardly heel (albeit one who can still wrestle) for the past 1.5 months or so, I don’t think it really hurts him when it ends. He’s not a Goldberg who is only a streak and nothing more. He has a pretty easy out of his pro-Russia gimmick, a “break up” with Lana (who is booked as a real Russian) and now he’s just Bulgarian Rusev without a long-legged reason to stay Russian.

The only thing is, while most women in wrestling add little, Lana is actually pretty good in my opinion, at least at what she does. But split from Rusev I don’t see any point in her character.

I HAAAAATTTEEEE JBL.

There is nothing important that ever comes out of his mouth ever. He does nothing for announcing, nothing to push storylines, nothing at all. ever.

And he was just on another level last night. I guess I understand the importance of a heel announcer, but he is just too much