I was married to a gay man.
I knew it ahead of time.
He had been with at least 5 other women before me, but let me say that it completely knocks your self esteem to zero.
You are not enough for your mate sexually.
This is not a good way to live in a marriage.
Not that my advice need be taken or mean anything, but IMHO, its not going to work.
You may not mind however, it is up to you, but from someone who has been there…
An open marriage may be the answer for both of you.
I don’t know how old your kids are, but do you really think being in an unhappy, awkward household like THAT is better for them than having two happy, well-adjusted, divorced parents?
Get divorced. Stay friends. Maybe the two of you will each find someone else; maybe not. But this is not a “marriage” you have now.
Eve hit the nail on the head, I believe. While it is not the be all and end all of a relationship, a deeply committed and satisfying sexual relationship is, IMHO, vitally important to keeping the marrige working. If there is no possibility of that (and it certainly doesn’t sound like there is in your case), then both of you have to be willing to take the steps necessary to see that you are both happy - and if that means ending the marriage and finding someone that you can have a rich, satisfying sexual relationship with than do it.
I went through a divorce after 14 years of marriage. It was a crushing, hurtful, shitty thing and I worried and worried and worried about the effect it would have on my daughter. Finally, my neice, who went through the process when my brother and his ex-wife got a divorce, told me something that has stuck by me - “Lee, I’d rather come from a broken home than live in a broken home.” My brother and his ex-wife, and my ex-wife and I, have managed to remain friends (probably better friends than we were spouses) and watch each other grow as individuals. It doesnt’ have to be ugly and it CAN work.
Keep it civil, keep it business-like (when the financial issues come up it really does boil down to a business arrangement), and keep communicating.
Good luck.
“I’d rather come from a broken home than live in a broken home”
Wow. The best quote I’ve heard in a really long time.
We have dicussed the divorce option and my wife tells me that she committed to me for life and she meant it; and that she wasn’t going to walk away from the marriage. She feels strongly committed to being married. The problem is, her definition of marriage is really my definition of “friends”.
What makes it harder is the fact that my job pays a substantial amount of money and she doesn’t work outside the home. I find myself wondering if I’m a meal ticket (and thinking this because I have become disillusioned).
Great quote above. And great feedback. Thanks guys. You rock.
OK, Synthesis : Several years ago a couple that were good friends of mine found themselves in what sounds like the exact situation that you are in.
The end result was that they divorced, and rather quickly. Although theirs was not a bitter divorce as divorces go, there was still a lot of trauma to both of them.
In their case, they have “joint custody” of two children, but the kids continue to live with their straight father. This was not an issue with them, it’s just the way it worked out in their situation. There is no reason why in another situation, the mother wouldn’t be the best choice to live with the children.
Now, several years later, the man has re-married and the woman has found what she thinks is a life-time female partner. The guy tells me that they both are much better off and happier than they would have been if they had tried to stay together and make it work.
You asked for experiences, that’s the only one I know about.
Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
I don’t think it is absolutly impossible for a marrige to suceed without sex: If Synthesis had had his entire genatalia riped off in a tragic accident, would we be consueling his wife to leave him because a marrige with one partner permanently sexually apathetic was doomed to failure? Things like this do happen, and marriges do survive. On the other hand, they also fall apart.
It seems to me that the two of you have to redefine your marrige somehow, and you have to do it together. I suspect that a good conselor could help, but look around until you find one who is sypathetic to this point of view: some will assume you have yo break up because a marrige can’t work without sex, and some will assume that the cure is to “fix” your wife: avoid both types.
No matter what, this is going to suck. But life isn’t fair.
I think that keeping the marrige together for the sake of the children is a goal worth striving for, if “keeping the marrrige together” means that the two of you are best friends, co-parents, and roommates. On the other hand, if you find you can’t be best friends, co-parents, and roommates and you end up divorcing, that isn’t the worst thing in the whole world: in that situation the important thing is to maintain some sort of strong relationship for your kids (like having apartments in the same building, or houses next door to each other, or some other arrangement that allows you to continue to function as co-parents).
Sounds to me like Wifey is being hugely unfair to you: “Oh, I’m a lesbian, sorry I forgot to mention this before we got married. If you INSIST on having sex, I guess I can grit my teeth and get through it. And, oh, I don’t believe in divorce.”
Bite me. She’s not living up to that “contract” she’s so het-up over. You could probably divorce HER, whether she likes it or not, though the best thing to do is TRY and get this settled in a friendly manner, for the kids’ sake. But I do NOT see any reason why the two of you shouldn’t split up and try to find happiness outside that so-called marriage.
I don’t believe that having a sexually apathetic (what a great term) spous (“I don’t want to have sex.”) is much, much different than being married to a homosexual spouse (“I want to have sex. Just not with you. Rather, I want to have sex with someone of my own gender.”) They aren’t comparable situations at all.
Interesting thoughts. We did visit a counselor and he basically:
(1) minimized the sexuality thing saying that people have all kinds of ranges in this area. He said I might be making too much of a big deal out of it.
(2) he said there are lot’s of women who don’t like sex at all, and that this is very similiar regardless of there love level with thier spouse.
(3) and finally he said that it’s very much like a tragic accident that leaves a spouse unable to have full sexual relations.
It was an interesting point of view, but making me feel (1) like a victim and (2) guilty doesn’t help.
Surprisingly, this thread has been 10x better than high $$ therapy.
Well, I was thinking about keeping my mouth shut but decided to put my two-cents in…
A fomer fairly-serious-type girlfriend came out to me as bisexual once. At first my thoughts jumped to the lascivious (sp?) thoughts of threesomes, etc. but that I know that that is something that I’m not really wired for - experimentation is one thing - life choices is another.
I thought about it a lot and finally decided that we were better broken up. The core issue for me is that I knew that I would never be able to give her what she really wanted. She would always be dissatisfied with me in some way - there’s a need she has that I can’t fulfill. It’s one thing to want a new car and not be able to get one - that’s just material stuff - but a relationship should be emotionally fullfilling for both - I couldn’t give her what she wanted - I couldn’t fulfill my role in the partnership.
I was also married before this, it ended in divorce. The reasons are many and various but there was some similarity.
My first wife was very much into self-suffiency, especially in an emotional way. She needed my paycheck, and my ability to do house maintenance, etc. but she was emotionally self-contained. It took years but I finally decided that I had to be more important to her. I needed to be more than a checkbook, a handyman, and the occasional sexual release.
I guess, IMHO, it’s OK to be selfish. Complete selflessness means that you are discounting your own needs. Frankly you have the right to be happy with your own life.
A marriage is more than sex. The analogy that your situation is like a marriage when a partner becomes injured doesn’t work for me. You’ve got a situation where your partner really doesn’t need you in the complete role of husband - that’s a greater role than just sexual partner, it includes the whole of the emotional part, too.
What you’ve got to decide for yourself is what you want your role in your relationship with your wife to be. Husband or Friend?
-Belrix
Was this counselor on crack at the time of your appointment? :eek:
I seriously recommend a second opinion… Meanwhile, have your lawyer start drawing up papers.
Thanks for sharing Belrix.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you discussed how my role has changed. I want to be required, needed, desired, ect.
I appreciate the input. I needed some objectivity because on a logical level it seemed as many of you have responded, but on an emotional level I’ve felt great guilt with even entertaining the idea of a amicable split. While at the same time realizing that I didn’t want to be in this situation the rest of my life.
A friend of mine was married several months ago, and before he tied the knot his dad dropped a bomb on him. “Son, I’m gay, and your mom has known for a while.” Seems the dad came out to mom when my friend was 12 or so and they decided to just live with it for the sake of the kids; friend was the last in the family to know so he’s a little ticked about all the secrecy. Family seems very normal and Cleaverish from the outside but has always been a little tense and he had no idea why-- mom is pretty bitter about everything, and dad also isn’t really able to date either as they are educators in a smallish rural city. So it has been done, but not terribly well.
On the other hand, I know several friends who are gay parents or children of a gay mom or dad and they all seem fine, even after the divorce-- they seem happy that everything is open and honest. One friend’s dad came out when he was younger and went through a teen-age “angry at my ‘dad’ the fag” phase but now he’s older and wiser and is getting along fine with dad.
You might love her unconditionally, but things will eventually fall apart, I’d wager. Don’t torture yourselves. You can be close divorced friends and not have to mess up the kids doing it.
Guilt. Oh yes I remember guilt. My wife, too, did not work outside the home. I saw my leaving her as the abandonment of that responsibility and the breaking of my wedding vows. I though I was turning into some sort of pain-causing, pleasure-seeking, egomaniac. I went though some pretty severe depression. I probably should’ve sought professional help. I didn’t.
The thing to keep in mind is that you have a right to happiness. You have a right to love and be loved in return.
I was generous, perhaps too much so, with the early separation support, giving her time to find a “real” job. I left her with a car, a house, and half the liquid assets. It was expensive then but now, in my “new life”, I’m happier for it. I can look back and be certain that the life I’m living now is better than it would’ve been had I stayed.
I like to think I left my ex-wife with a better life, too. My being unhappy wasn’t exactly good for what relationship we had and I also freed her to find somebody else. This may be a justification but it’s not a hard one to make.
You say you have a good friendship now - great - you can use that - after all she’ll always be your children’s mother and your lives will be forever linked because of that.
You said that you want to be needed & desired. You’re in a relationship where that’ll never be for more than what you can give materially. You deserve more - we all do. Good luck - it’s a hard decision.
I’d just like to point out that the analogy to being physically sexually disfunctional is flawed; in a case where one partner loses sexual function, there is still desire present, and even perhaps a willingness to experiment with alternate methods of expressing that desire.
I just don’t see any way for this to work out well, I’m afraid, Synthesis. Mostly because it’s become pretty obvious that the consensus in this thread (that divorce should be counted among your options) is something you’ve been wanting to hear.
Divorce would be difficult. Living your life in this situation would be difficult. There’s no easy choice being offered to you. Knowing yourself, and knowing her, what you need to choose is the route that has the best chance of making both of you happy in the long run.
I’m really sorry you’ve been put in this position. It sounds like you have the strength and the presence of mind to work through it well, though. There aren’t a lot of people on the planet who could handle this tough a situation with the kind of aplomb you’ve shown here.
Synthesis, I’d just like to say that you are not alone. I’m going through something quite similar, as I mentioned in this thread.
I would stay in my marriage because I think our affection is substantial enough and I would rather my son be raised in a house with both his parents. However, she doesn’t agree.
“I though I was turning into some sort of pain-causing, pleasure-seeking, egomaniac.”
I’ve discovered that there are few things more gut wretching than being completely aware of the fact that you are becoming a paing-causing, egomaniac becuase of pain and anger.
MrVisible, I’ve been looking for a more balanced view. I’ve been with this for 18 months, and on a 1-10 I would rate my current marriage, as it is, as a 6-7. If it were lower it would be easier. I have no doubt that the sexuality issue has created demons in my head that make the situation harder.
I’m not going to divorce my wife over some messageboard conversations, but you guys (and gals) have offered some great thoughts, perspectives, ect that aren’t filled with mushy, fairy tale bs.
Homebrew:
“I didn’t take long to realize that we should have known years ago that she is a lesbian. It explains quite a bit.”
LOL. Yes, looking back it should have been more obvious. Before, I figured she was a fairly “low passion” person, but now I understand that she has tremendous built up passion…but not for me. The relationship is the same, but the intent and motivations are different. After long conversations with my wife I can relate to the relief you found when you were with a group that felt “natural”. She went to a gay bar one night and felt comfortable as well. Isolated incident, however.
Thanks.
Go buy The Other Side of the Closet: The Coming Out Crisis for Straight Spouses and Families. It’s by Amity Buxton.
Synthesis,
My dad is gay, and my mother isn’t. While they are divorced now, they were married for 20 years (well, my mom didn’t know he was gay for most of that, but still…) Anyway, I’d suggest you hook yourself up immediately with the Straight Spouse Support Network (www.ssnetwk.org)
Good Luck, and please feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Another snippet of advice - but this time, legal. If you do decide to divorce, I’d suggest trying something a little less adversarial than the traditional process. There seems to be such a good chance that the two of you could remain on good terms, so I urge you to contact your local bar association and find out the names of divorce practitioners who are experienced in “ADR,” or Alternative Dispute Resolution. ADR is a new-ish area of the law designed to get parties to come to agreements without detroying one another in the process. Some jurisdictions (I believe Illinois is one) have even created special ADR courts to handle divorces and custody cases, to avoid poisoning relationships that, after all, won’t be over even when the marriage is.
Best wishes.