I’m learning a lot about the inside players. They freely admitted (in interviews) the goal of these investigations was to disrupt the Clinton Administration. Keep them constantly on the defensive and off balance.
Hillary’s earlier work at the Rose Law Firm forced her to testify at a Grand Jury. Both Clintons had Ken Star as their worst nightmare that never went away. The political attacks against them were quite effective.
Monica got access to Clinton during the budget shutdown. The WH interns were filling in for staff that couldn’t work. There were less people around and it was easier for Bill & Monica to strike up a conversation. One that ultimately almost took down his Presidency.
I’m looking forward to see the final events that leads to impeachment.
I have been watching. Sad. I was surprised at Lewisky’s story. It seems she was really in love with Clinton. I never knew that at the time. I thought she was a gold-digger and playing the President. My mind has changed about her. Tripp was just a jerk. She wanted her 15 minutes and a book deal. I just don’t know what to think about Paula Jones. She’s a hot mess.
I finished watching it. What struck me are the parallels to Clinton and Kavanaugh (this won’t be a rehash or debate).
The problem in both cases is that the parties rallied around their respective guys and yet failed to take a great opportunity to address the larger issues which remain important today.
Clinton: The successful strategy that the Dems put forward was that this was a private, consensual sexual relationship between two adults, that although immoral, is largely, if not completely none of the public’s business.
The issue: At the very least he misled FBI investigators, arguably committed perjury and obstructed justice in order to cover up this personally embarrassing act.
The larger issue: Many, many people are in federal prisons right now for committing an embarrassing personal act and/or witnessing a friend commit an embarrassing act and following it up by lying to the authorities about it. What should be the proper outcome of that? Should we understand that it is almost inherent in human nature that we will lie and try to cover up our embarrassing acts and give a person some leeway for those lies? Or should we insist that people go against their nature and become truthful at the first moment of exposure?
Kavanaugh: The successful strategy that the Republicans put forward was that there was no corroboration or substantiation of Ford’s allegations, that they happened 36 years after the fact, and that a person should not be denied his seat on the Supreme Court.
The issue: Almost all sexual assault victims will be unable to provide corroboration, will delay reporting these actions, and insisting on such proof will mean that a large number of legitimate sexual assault allegations will go uninvestigated and the perpetrator go unpunished.
The larger issue: Many, many people are serving life in prison for uncorroborated sexual assault allegations and/or have had their careers destroyed. Should we default on the side of the accused, reform these laws, and allow many to get away with these things, or should we continue the current path and allow careers to be destroyed and people to be imprisoned on false allegations?
Unfortunately, in both situations, once the politicians got what they wanted, these issues were dropped, all while members of both parties continue to support the status quo after supposedly realizing the error of their ways.
I am new around here, but by what I can tell from the perspective of someone who hasn’t set foot back on American soil for nearly 2 years, this message board, like 2018’s USA as a whole, is incredibly divided by politics, but I still wonder what people really think if they could put aside partisan differences, be candid with themselves and others and go with their gut feelings.
If faced with the choice of having Bill Clinton, a man who I voted for twice for President, and Brett Kavanaugh, a man who strikes me as an arrogant, entitled, self-pitying, lying, smarmy, overgrown frat-boy at his core, spend the weekend alone and unsupervised chaperoning their daughter’s (or granddaughter, niece, sister, etc.) 18 year-old’s women’s soccer team on an out-of-town roadtrip, which one would you choose, assuming your primary goal in picking the escort was to best keep her from the letcherous advances of a possible wolf in sheep’s clothing? (Let’s pretend that the Clinton and Kavanaugh in my hypothetical were two random, unknown orthodontists from Des Moines instead of a former President and a sitting Supreme Court Justice, but with the same personalities and moral values that you believe Bill Clinton and Brett Kavanaugh to hold today)
For me it is a simple, no contest choice, but I wonder how others feel?
These two parts are false. You do not go to jail for uncorroborated sexual assault allegations, and even those who actually were shown to be guilty of rape rarely get life sentences. You are a lawyer, you know this.
So we can remove that part entirely. So, after removing that misleading bit, we have “Many, many people have had their careers destroyed for uncorroborated sexual assault allegations.”
This at least is something that can happen, but it’s not something that happens to many, many people, because the default in this country is that, if it’s proven in court, most people don’t believe the rape or sexual assault happened. There are a few instances.
And neither side supports the status quo here. The right tends to care about these few people and spreads rhetoric to make them seem like a bigger deal than they are, even apparently saying that the law is guilty until proven innocent in these cases.
The left, on the other hand, cares about the part I didn’t quote (because it is correct) and wants to make sure that rapists don’t get away with it. We definitely have not stopped fighting in the public or private sphere.
Because of the premise of your post fails. While there is arguably a bigger discussion with the Clinton situation that was dropped. There is no such thing in the Kavinaugh case.
And, again, it is a myth that there is a significant problem with uncorroborated accusations costing jobs, and a full on falsehood to claim that people go to prison due to uncorroborated accusations. They go prison when rape or sexual assault is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Normally I would ask you to answer first, as I despite gotcha and baited questions. But, this time, I’m pretty sure my answer is unexpected.
Not a clear answer to me at all. We now know that Clinton likely raped on woman when he was younger. We know that Kavenaugh, when even younger, attempted rape at parties, but only when drunk–but he really loves beer and is emotionally unstable.
Neither are the type of person I would be thrilled about my daughter being with when they were at their ages where they did these things. (Though it would, of course, be her choice after my advice.) Neither are the type I would care about now.
I’m on record as saying that, if it’d been clear that Clinton actually raped a woman, I’d have supported his impeachment and conviction, and then a criminal trial. But the Republicans focused on consensual extramarital sex, which doesn’t matter unless the candidate has attacked extramarital sex.
I believe that it is much harder to prove that Kavinaugh attempted rape to a legal standard. However, I do believe he did it. But, without the legal standard, I just want him removed from office. Not only for this, but because he is emotionally unstable, and all but announced he’d side with Republicans to get back at the Clintons since he’s a loon who believes in conspiracy theories. I do not think he is capable of making good law. And the fact that Trump didn’t just replace him with another conservative makes me think he was put on the bench to say it’s wrong to prosecuted a president (which he said about Clinton).
I suspect this does not align with your expectations. But I do my best not to be inconsistent with my beliefs.
Monica made it very clear in the recent docudrama interviews that the affair with Clinton was entirely consensual. She talks about waiting by the phone in case he called. (She couldn’t call him). She looked forward to their trysts.
IMHO, Bill seems to have genuine feelings for Monica. The affair lasted nearly two years and he took incredibly stupid risks to see her.
You’ll have to look elsewhere for examples of sexual harassment. Bill certainly betrayed his marriage and soiled the reputation of the presidency. He deserves what happened afterwards.
The person I feel the most compassion for is Monica.
Her one true Washington friend, Linda Tripp betrayed her and sold her out for a book deal. Then the FBI holds her in a hotel room for hours and even threatens to prosecute her mother.
Having an affair with a married man is NOT a crime in the US. Monica got abused and bruised in a political tug of war. Then when she finally gives a deposition the most intimate sexual details are published in the Starr Report.
It’s a sickening abuse of privacy that should have never happened.
Monica was politically naive but she didn’t deserve that kind of treatment.