Apologizing "if" anyone was offended isn't really an apology. Now with homophobia!

The BBQ Pit
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So a week or two ago, the president of the Action démocratique du Québec, stumping for the possibility of multi-lived ex-premier Lucien Bouchard’s joining the party, compared him to openly gay Parti québécois leader André Boisclair by saying that Bouchard would be a better premier because he has children and wants a better future for them, something that Boisclair, being gay, can’t claim.

I’ll leave aside the matter of how a senior political figure of a mainstream party could have possibly thought this was an acceptable thing to say in Quebec in 2006, and use this as a springboard to a more general quibble.

Having been smacked from a variety of directions, the ADQ president attempted to apologize:

This has browned me off for a long time and I’m really getting tired of it. Folks, you cannot apologize in the conditional mood. Apologizing means recognizing that you did something you shouldn’t have. That means saying so. “I realize the way I expressed myself was offensive, and I regret it sincerely…”

Otherwise it’s not an apology. It’s like you’re saying, “If some people are obstreperous enough to take offence at this, I’m sorry my words lent themselves to their little game…” It’s mercenary and it shows you didn’t learn anything from the experience.

This happens everywhere. “The captain wishes to inform you that instead of London-Heathrow, we will be landing in Johannesburg. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause…” Actually, you know what? If you fuck up the schedules, it’s very likely that there will be inconvenience. Apologizing involves ADMITTING THIS. “We apologize for the inconvenience this causes.” That wasn’t so hard, was it?

Jeezus. My mother would have never put up with this bullshit. “If the vase was knocked over, I’m sorry for any inconvenience this might cause.” “Ifyou believed based on what I had to say that the parent-teacher interview was on Sunday, I apologize for any confusion.” Oh, it could happen. You know what she would have said? “Okay, no computer for six weeks. We apologize for any inconvenience.”

After one of these little nuggets I never feel apologized to. I just feel irritation. And I think that a lot of other people do too.

I’m sorry for any electoral losses/loss of business this may cause.

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I think that kind of apology expresses exactly what the person meant to say. ‘I am not sorry for what I said. I still think I am right. But I am sorry that my beliefs cause you to be upset.’
That is what I think people say when they make that kind of apology. A lot of people should not be making that kind of apology because they do not realise that is what they are really expressing.

I have made that kind of apology. There are so many people in this world now that will take offence at anything. So I have made those kind of apologies just to try to keep the peace.
Example- I am a New Zealander living in Australia. I dislike the Australian cricket team because they are arrogant. I made the mistake of telling my team at work exactly that -“I do not like the Australian cricket team because they are arrogant.” I got hate email from people in my team. I had to make an apology of the “I am sorry if my words offended any members of my team. I regret any offence caused.” I meant pretty much this - ‘I am not sorry for what I said. I still think I am right. But I am sorry that my beliefs cause you to be upset.’

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I have to say I’m rather fond of the conditional apology- people really are too sensitive these days, IMO, and unless I’m advocating something really out of line, I’d agree with Blinkingblinking: “I think I’m right, I’m not sorry for what I said, but I am sorry you’re offended”.

Of course, I’m just as likely to retort “Yeah? Well, your offence offends me!”

That works surprisingly well, actually… :smiley:

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But you know your words offended. So say “I am sorry THAT my words offended members of my team: work was not an appropriate place to share such negative and hostile views”: or whatever. And if you honestly don’t think you did anything wrong–neither in the having the views, nor in the expressing them–then don’t apologize. Say instead “It’s unfortunatne that a hot-button topic like sports can be so divisive in an enviroment where cohesion is vital: as such, I suggest we all adopt a policy of not making negitive comments in the work place about sports teams.”

5

Well, that’s not much of an apology, is it? Are your team members satisfied with your pseudo-apology, or do they still hate you?

In such cases, I think a better apology is a direct and sincere one: “I’m sorry I said what I did; it was insulting.” After all, you did insult the Australian cricket team, and IMHO in the company of Australians that was a rather rude thing to do. You can apologize honestly for having made an insulting remark, without having to lie about the fact that you still think the insult was accurate.

Even people who believe that their criticisms are justified can (and should) sincerely apologize, without any conditional weasel-words, for insulting others by rudely expressing those criticisms. If I say “I think the President is a stupid asshole” and it turns out I’m saying that to the President’s daughter, who takes offense at it, it’s my duty as a polite person to follow up with something along the lines of “I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have said that; I beg your pardon.” Doesn’t mean I can’t still think that the President is a stupid asshole.

Using a weasel-word conditional apology along the lines of “I’m sorry if my saying your father is a stupid asshole offended you” simply compounds the original insult. It implies that I don’t see any need to apologize for being rude and insulting, as long as my rude insult expressed my honest opinion. Sorry, but that’s not the way polite behavior works.

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No. My words did not offend. They found the offence. The two people who said they found them most offensive admit to not being sports fans. They thought that if I insult an Australian sports team I am actually insulting all Australians. Well, sorry I think that is shite. Sports was not any hot button.
As I said I was not sorry but it helps some people if you apologize even in that way.

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One of my team members never spoke to me again. Suited me fine(she was incredibly rude,arrogant and bitchy. But I was always polite to her before this incident happened. I never caused her friction before).
I was insulting the Australian Cricket team. None of the members of that team were present. Why should apologize as if they were there listening to me?
If you think the President is a stupid a-hole you should hold to your belief. Not weasel out of it just becuase you were speaking to his daughter (maybe if the daughter was 5 it would be different).
As I said before, you only use the “I am sorry if my words offended you …” in certain circumstances. And in your example you should not apologize that way (if at all).
I am not polite to people who attack me in rude ignorant ways ( I am talking about my co-workers not anyone here). I see no need to be polite to people attacking me personally in rude ignorant ways.

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So you aren’t sorry you said it and you aren’t sorry you thought it. That’s fine, but if that’s the case, don’t apologize. Apologizing is a big deal. It’s stepping up and admiting you were wrong. It’s the most sacred ritual of good manners, and it shouldn’t be diluted. If you don’t think anything you did was wrong, don’t apologize. Say “I feel badly that people are upset” or “I will try to avoid hurting people’s feelings in the future” or any number of other statements, but avoid “I’m sorry” if you can’t be forthright and sincere about it.

Why take the dignity-hit that an apology is and then water it down to meaninglessness? It’s like not being sure whether or not you are in a school zone, so you slow down to 30: it’ll still get you a ticket if it is a school zone and still cost you time if it isn’t. It makes no sense to compromise on this, pick one or the other.

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That might be how you do things in your part of the world, but around here we speak English, and if that means calling a spade a fucking shovel, then so be it. :smiley:

It also means not using excessive Buzzwords, unless you want to look like the Pointy-Haired Boss from Dilbert.

Oh, and I’m Australian and I’m not offended by Blinkingblinking’s comments. I don’t know much about the Australian Cricket Team, but I bet they probably are arrogant wankers- they certainly get paid too much for what they do (like all professional athletes, but that’s a different thread).

I’d love to know how your co-workers figure Australian Cricket Team= All Australians. I didn’t vote for any of them- hell, I don’t even know any of their names- and I bet there are quite a few of your “offended” co-workers who know about as much as I do regarding the Australian Cricket Team.

This is one of the reasons I’m so Anti-Team Sport: it causes people to get far too worked up about things which really don’t matter, and hate people who have better things to do with their time than give a shit about two groups of people chasing spherical objects around paddocks.

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I cannot remember the exact wording of my email to my co-workers, but from memory it was pretty much “I feel badly that people are upset” and “I will try to avoid hurting people’s feelings in the future”. So I followed what you said. I did not say “sorry”.
I do not dilute the word ‘sorry’. It annoys me when I hear my co-workers saying ‘sorry’ about things which they did not cause. Customer phones and complains about rude person from my company. My co-worker instantly says “Sorry”. I do not apologize for things others did or did not do.

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I think you don’t get it. You should be apologising for being rude. “I insulted the Aussie cricket team and I should have realised that that may offend you. I am sorry for offending you.”

The offence you are apologising for is not having the thoughtfulness to keep possibly offensive comments to yourself.

P.S., I am also an NZer living in Australia, I’d like to think I wouldn’t be so stupid as to insult the cricket team around other Australians, of course it’ll offend some of them. Just like there are plenty of Kiwis who would be offended by insults about the All Blacks.

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The thing to bear in mind, of course, is that most Aussies would have no problem insulting the All Blacks. Hell, I’m from NZ myself and I hate the All Blacks too.

Besides, you’re living in Broome… Western Australia is different, I’m reliably informed. :smiley:

(Says the man who moved from NZ to Queensland…) :smiley:

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I take back what I said, as far as your example goes, you do get it.

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Is it really reasonable to believe that expressing the opinion that the Australian cricket team are arrogant would cause offence to people not in anyway connected with the players on the team?

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Apologizing for a rude insult is not the same thing as “weaseling out” of the belief that the insult expressed. Saying “I’m sorry I said that, because it was rude and insulting and I should have known better” is not the same thing as saying “I’m sorry, I didn’t really mean what I said”.

Anybody who thinks that honesty requires one to refuse to apologize for insulting remarks, just because those remarks expressed their sincerely held opinions, is headed for a good deal of trouble, socially speaking. Anybody who thinks that they don’t need to apologize for calling another person’s close relative a stupid asshole :eek: is probably headed for an actual physical thrashing someday.

I’m not surprised that you tend to find, as you say, “so many people in this world now that will take offence at anything”. But I think it may have more to do with you than with them. Personally, I don’t tend to encounter lots of easily offended people nowadays, but that may be simply because I understand the basics of not behaving offensively. (Here in the Pit, of course, I don’t bother.)

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Actually, most Aussies outside of NSW don’t give a shit about Rugby Union and wouldn’t even know who the All Blacks are. I’ve lived in the NT and WA and Union gets less TV coverage than netball. If it’s not AFL or cricket then it’s well below the radar.

And yes, W.A. is different, I can’t talk about here, they might find out. :eek:

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Depends who they are. It is reasonable to expect that it may cause offense. Some Australians are very involved (passively) in sport and identify closely with their representative team. Of course many Australians don’t care and there are plenty who would agree that their team is arrogant. It’s a bit like talking about religion, it’s a good idea to tentatively find out where people stand before making bold statements if you don’t want to cause offence.

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My friends and I refer to these as “unpologies”, a term coined by my friend Misti in describing her mother-in-laws heavily qualified and stating-the-obvious in a less than remorseful “apologies”. (Her mother-in-laws “apologies” are along the lines of “I said you were too fat and a terrible mother and a worse housekeeper the other day and I want you to know I shouldn’t have said that”- i.e. no “I was wrong” or even “I’m sorry” just "here’s what I said again and a ‘now get over it you silly bitch’ appendage.)

Of course I love the old “slip of the tongue” or “what I meant wasn’t what I said which isn’t to say I didn’t mean it but I shouldn’t have said it” apology. An extreme example would be from a few years ago when Dick Armey referred to (openly gay MA-Dem Congressman) Barney Frank as “Barney Fag”, drawing some fire even from conservative Republicans. His unpology was

Frank’s acceptance of the apology was cool as well. I can’t find the exact quote (and I’m at a slow connection) but it was something to the effect of “I accept that with all the sincerity with which it was given. I would question whether Frank and Fag are at all alliteratives and I find it strange that for more than 60 years since she married my mother was never once referred to as Mrs. Elsie Fag, but I suppose her friends are a bit less stumbling and mumbling.”

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Good pitting. What the airline would say is “we apologize of this causes any inconvenience.” They damn well know it causes inconvenience, and the politicians who say this stuff damn well know that the target is hurt. Or would be if they had any respect for the speaker. I’d love to hear one of the targets respond “I take no offense, since the speaker of those lines is an bigoted and moronic cauchon, and I expect nothing better from him.”

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But … this is cricket … between Australia and New Zealand. It’s like the Soviet Union and the US at the height of the Cold War. Indeed, if either team thought that they could get away with deploying tactical nuclear weapons within the Laws of Cricket, they would. After all, a single underarm delivery in a Oz-Kiwi game almot caused diplomatic relations to be broken off. Insulting the other team on their home turf is unforgivable. I’m surprised that blinkingblinking has not been deported nack to the sheep paddocks on the other side of the Tasman for this!