This probably belongs somewhere else, but it’s not really a debate, and its pretty Mundane, and its probably been done, and possibly I could find info on Google, but anyhow here we go.
Has anyone ever noticed that it’s ok to make the most of your intelligence, but not so for appearance?
What I mean is, if someone is smart and they study and go to school and read books and pay attention to other clever people, they are praised for it, whereas, if someone is pretty, and they wear makeup, and take care with their hair and clothing, and whatnot, they kinda get slammed for it, called shallow, etc. etc.?
Is that because intelligence is inherently more important than beauty, and if so, why is that?
What if you make your living based on your looks - does that make you shallow? What if you’re not very clever?
I’m just curious here and rambling, so I will stop now.
anyone have ANYTHING to say about this lamentably lame subject? (hey - it’s Friday, I’ve eaten about 15 butter tarts on the Elephant Waiting Couch and I’m feeling a tad punchy - Humour me, SVP.)
There’s nothing wrong with making yourself look as nice as possible, but alot of times people in our society get praise and benefits simpy because they’re attractive, and then when people see this, and realize that’s it a completely BS situation they get upset and rant about it. And sometimes this means people who just happen to be gorgeous but are otherwise good people get slammed as a result.
Intelligence on the other hand is something that usually requires a certain amount of diligence and hard work, something highly praised in out society. Most people who have a natural intelligence and don’t hone it usually wind up making idiotic statements and betraying their ignorance (Bill Maher?).
And making a living off of your looks doesn’t automatically make you shallow. Your looks are your bread and butter, so go ahead and take out a million dollar insurance policy on your ass. Just don’t let the praise you get because of your looks to override your “I’m being an asshole” alarm.
And since I think that I’m rambling as well, one last thought passed in my head: people who get egos about their intelligence are usually much better at defending their position than people who get an ego from their looks. In other words people who get praised for intelligence exercise the part of the brain that formulates counter-arguments and defenses more often than someone who is “merely” good-looking.
I’m frequently made fun of for using “big words.” So, not everyone believes that intelligence should be displayed.
There are people who think I’m making up the big words, people who think either I’m mocking them or being pretentious by using good manners…and of course, those who hate me because I’m beautiful.
I wouldn’t say that intelligence is inherently more important than beauty–quite the opposite in the world where we live today. With computers and standardization rampant in society, you don’t have to be especially intelligent to do jobs that in past times required a lot of training/practice/absorbtion of knowledge. Besides, you’re mostly talking about perceptions, how people in general feel about these things. The real bottom line is, how far ahead does beauty or intelligence get you, assuming you possess one or the other? (I can hardly stand to contemplate those who possess both.) If you look at our society, it sure seems that the pretty people are having a damn good time of it. Just look at most of the TV shows on the WB–all those oh-so-perfect people living lives of fame and (at least some) fortune, without being particularly compellingly good at what they’re doing. Frankly, if I were given the choice, if I could start life over again, I’d probably trade in my big-ass brain for a Tom Cruise sort of appearance. I might not be particularly worth much, in the cosmic sense, but at least I’d be too dumb to realize it, and thus remain relatively happy.
From personal experience, I say that they recieve different emphasises from different people. It’s usually the intelligent themselves who favour intelligence (but don’t exclude looks.), and the attractive themselves who favour the attractive (but don’t, in some cases, exclude intelligence.). Then there are the attractive and intelligent. Consider them dangerous freaks of nature…
I think they’re both frowned upon by those who don’t care for them. I think most everyone on this board can attest to being picked on in school for being intelligent, and I am a big proponent of the theory that school is really just a micro version of our society at large, without adult politeness. So I think that those same people who picked on us in school would pick on us now, if that veil of manners was removed. Intelligence is only appreachiated by those with it.
Now, I just went out last week and bought navy blue eye-liner, so don’t think I’m frowning upon makeup when I say this, but personal upkeep and image are not the same thing as beauty. We’ve all seem women (and men) who wear WAAAAY too much makeup and look plastic. My godfather, one of the wisest men who I ever had the pleasure of knowing, once told me that beauty can exhist in the way a woman holds her hand. I was recently told by one of my male (platonic) friends that he thought I was one of the most attractive people he has ever met. Now I know for a fact he’s met MUCH more beautiful women. I think he was talking about the hand principle.
So here’s what I say in a nutshell: intelligence isn’t appreachiated by everyone, just those who have some. And image isn’t the same as beauty.
That said, I wear makeup when I’m looking to be pretty, and wear clothes that I feel flatter me. Why? Because it’s fun dressing up and being a girl. Because I feel prettier and more confident when I KNOW I look good. And because hootch boots rock. Does it make me shallow? No more than when I’m in my jammies and my hair is in a white girl afro. Does it lower my intelligence? No more than when I’m discussing Neitzche and Shakespeare in coffee shops. I do it because I want to.
Swimming Riddles said:
“My godfather, one of the wisest men who I ever had the pleasure of knowing, once told me that beauty can exhist in the way a woman holds her hand.”
This is so true. Beauty can be defined in so many different ways, and that’s the beauty of it. I find intelligence way more attractive than physical looks because physical looks can and do fade. But what I think TRUE beauty is, and this is what I privilege over physical appearance OR intelligence, is a person’s spirit: how respectful, kind, compassionate, and giving in thought, word, or deed a person is to other people and to him/herself.
I don’t generally recall seeing people abused simply for maintaining their appearance. A few people take abuse for getting vain about it, but not for simply being attractive.
In the beauty vs brains fight, where I do see people taking abuse for beauty is when they attempt to substitute, (or, worse, succeed in substituting) attractiveness for brains. The number of suits that have been allowed to become managers when the only thing they could manage was their wardrobe is staggering. People who are attactive who are also intelligent and diligent are generally respected and admired, in my experience. (Some of them can take knocks for vanity, but that is not the “standard” condition of attractive people, only the one remembered by the jealous.)
Some men seem jealous of Brit PM Tony Blair. I don’t regard him as handsome, but IMHO he speaks well. It doesn’t matter to me how he looks, I could listen to him with eyes closed. I’ve heard some men describe him as a guy with “school boy looks,” and as “the darling of Europe.” FWIW
I personally don’t feel that way. I make the most of both my intelligence and my looks.
I believe that beauty comes from within. Part of my beauty is my intelligence. I’ve been called smart, and beautiful, so I must be doing something right.
They’re a Canadian staple - every bakery is required to have them!
And to un-hijack this post, I’ll mention an old story (sorry, no cite) that the top people in most businesses look better than average. I suppose they’re smart too, but intelligence seems doesn’t seem to be the only requirement.
1 egg, beaten
1/3 cup butter
1 cup brown sugar, firmly packed
2 tbsp milk
3/4 cup raisens
1 tsp vanilla
Mix all ingredents together.
Fill 12 regular or 24 pastry lined tart tins.
Bake in a hot oven at 450 for 8 minutes, reduce temperature to 350 and bake for another 8 - 12 minutes, depending on oven.
Eat.
Now, back to the whole looks vs. brains thing - a couple of things I thought of:
I saw an interview with Niaomi Campbell - a hottie, for sure, and she was detailing her beautin regime - she waxes and plucks and powers and tones and lifts and washes her face in evian, for crying out loud. Obviously, she is spending alot of time on her appearance in order to look good, to do her job, and be successful at it.
I assume (and correct me if I’m wrong) that very few people would put Niaomi in the same class as say Stephen Hawking, who is very clever, and works hard, and studies and reads books and spends alot of time on his brain in order to be smart, and do his job and be successful at it.
Now both of these people are at the top of their respective fields, but I bet SP gets alot more respect, generally.
I don’t know who SP is, but I imagine that SH gets more respect than Naomi from people who know who he is. But a lot more people know who Naomi is, and she makes a lot more money too. So if you’re expecting me to cry for poor Naomi Campbell just because people don’t treat her like a brilliant physicist then you can think again. And contrary to your OP, I’ve never heard anyone mock Naomi Campbell for being beautiful. I have never heard anyone make fun of or disrespect an attractive person on the basis of their appearance unless that attractive person had a distinctly unattractive personality.
The nice thing about being intelligent is that family member have fistfights to get you on their Trivial Pursuits team!
Ah well, I was the “smart” kid in high school , the one with my nose in a book all the time. But I agree with whats been stated already: It has a lot to do with ego. Seems like so many beautiful people want me to worship them. F**K that…I will enjoy their plastic appearance then go back to my book. Conversely I get the worst case of knock down drag out giggles everytime I see a friend of my hubby’s: He used to brag about how smart he was, he was a member of MENSA
(BOW down peasants) and he quit school because he could learn more on his own… he is the night manager at 7-11.
Uh huh fuckin genius at work…
I don’t think that one is any more valued than the other, but it depends on the career. A physicist doesn’t have to be beautiful, but they have to be smart. A supermodel doesn’t have to be smart, just look good (in general… there are a few exceptions, IMO). But beauty carries a stigma of stupid, especially with women. If you meet a young, average looking girl who says she is V.P. of a company, you think “wow, must be pretty sharp and on the ball”. If the girl is young and quite stunning, the first thought of many people is “Must have slept her way to the top”. Get a group of people together and bring up supermodels and at least one will mutter something about “brainless bimbo”. Most people’s intelligence is accepted at face value or they are given the benefit of the doubt up front. Beautiful people have to not only prove their intelligence, but overcome the pre-arranged hurdles that they are stupid.
Even in simple social settings, if someone with very good looks shows up, especially if they are proud of their looks and flaunting themselves a bit, the immediate thought is “bitch, slut, stuck on themselves, narcey, superstud” and can be and most times are, shunned by many until going out of their way to prove that they are nice, kind, smart, etc. Simply because good looking people are routinely associated as dumb and egotistic.
A few years ago I swa a show about physical attractiveness, and i recall that an Indian-born professor of sociology (forget his name0 determined that female beauty was the same in all cultures-there was an ideal measurement of bust, waist, and hips that determined attarctiveness to males. This work convinces me that attraction 9to physical beauty0 is hard-wired into our brains. it is also clear that physical attractiveness is positively corellated with higher incomes, status, etc.
buddy1, did this “study” that this Indian born professor of sociology have input from females and males about what makes women attractive? Also did this study use input from men and women to come up with what the ideal for physical attractiveness in males is, or did it deal solely with female physical attractiveness?
buddy1, did this “study” that this Indian born professor of sociology have input from females and males about what makes women attractive? Also did this study use input from men and women to come up with what the ideal for physical attractiveness in males is, or did it deal solely with female physical attractiveness? If this “study” does not deal with the exact measurements of male physical attractiveness, do you know of one out there that does and that uses data from both men and women to reach its conclusions?
