I think the consensus is that they’re using “wagyu” as a marketing effort, and not actually using wagyu beef. And I agree with you that is a good thing.
All I know is that I’m getting hungry for a good burger (or mediocre burger)
Tell me about it - got a package of some really nice 80/20 in the fridge and we had been planning on beastloaf, but a grilled burger sounds really good right now. Loaf of bread in baking right now, no buns but I really don’t mind burgers on texas toast. Even have some 10 year cheddar for making cheesburgers.
The real issue is aside from a few outliers almost no one in this thread is using the term Wagyu very correctly. Wagyu is any cattle from four recognized Japanese breeds, period. You could buy a Wagyu calf and corn feed it its whole life, and do none of the various things that Japanese do when raising them–it is still 100% a Wagyu calf.
There are Wagyu cattle that are absolutely the same breed they raise in Japan that are raised in the United States, however as mentioned upthread, a more common setup is a hybrid breed of Wagyu and Angus. The term Wagyu does not refer to anything about the produced beef–it solely refers to the breed of the cattle. Just like all cows on planet earth, how they live and are fed will affect the beef produced from them.
When you post pictures of highly marbled beef, that is typically going to be one of several types of beef produced in Japan that follow strict Japanese guidelines about area of production and rules of production. For example, Kobe beef is Wagyu cattle, raised under the standards of Kobe Beef Marketing and Distribution Promotion Association, and they also must be raised in Japan’s Hyōgo Prefecture–at least for labeling purposes in Japan. “Kobe beef” is not a protected term in the United States, and anyone can call essentially any beef in the United States kobe if they were so inclined (this was true at least until a few years ago, it’s possible some entrepreneur has secured some trademarks, I don’t know–but the U.S. generally hasn’t protected the term.)
Kobe isn’t the only Wagyu cattle raised along similar guidelines and producing similar product–there are a number of others in Japan: Matsusaka and Omi are similar, as is Sanda beef.
If Arby’s was advertising Kobe beef, then while legal under U.S. law (because the term isn’t regulated here), it would be deceptive since they almost certainly aren’t using Wagyu raised under the Kobe standards, in Hyōgo and then importing it (as mentioned, only a small number of restaurants in the United States have ever served this meat–and until an import ban ended a few years ago, 0 restaurants were selling it–but tons were using the term.) Lots of less scrupulous American restaurateurs were using the Kobe name to refer to ground beef made from Wagyu-Angus hybrid cattle raised in the United States exactly the same way as typical American cattle, and marketing it in gastropubs and other places. That is dishonest, but it’s actually not what Arby’s is doing. Arby’s is just claiming it is Wagyu, which if it is from a Wagyu breed of cattle, it absolutely is.
Now for the specific breed claim–that is murkier. There are two main types of “Wagyu” cattle raised in the United States, one is a cross breed that was first exhibited on the American market in 2012–it is typically a cross of Wagyu and an Aberdeen Angus. The resulting animal has been variously called “American Style Kobe Beef” (which is intentionally deceptive), “Wangus” (which is funny and not deceptive), or just plain “Wagyu” (a little deceptive.)
However, there is also a U.S. association for registered Wagyu (as in full blooded Japanese Wagyu beef), called the American Wagyu Association. Their cattle are full blooded descendants of imported Japanese cows, with no hybridization. If that is what Arby’s is selling it’s IMO perfectly fine for them to sell it as Wagyu. It may take advantage of the common confusion about what Wagyu means, and make people “think” they’re getting some crazy expensive style of Japanese beef, but it isn’t outright deceptive like a number of other practices I’ve described.
The AWA website has a lot of good information:
What is Wagyu? | American Wagyu Association
Notably, Japan has tightly regulated the export of Wagyu cattle out of Japan, cattle registered with the AWA all come from a few relatively small exports Japan has allowed in a few batches since 1975 and that established the American breeding stock–oddly enough until recently most of the AWA registered cattle raised in the United States was actually produced for the Japanese market, until various import restrictions (in both countries) over beef curtailed that trade for a number of years in the 2000s and 2010s.
True, people do keep saying that.
And yet they’re totally wrong. As several of us has said, and cited, and quoted, American wagyu beef is real and is sold in large quantities, and Arby’s use of the term is legitimate. Posts #5 and 7 and 8 all noted this. Three different people at the beginning of the thread posted the truth. Why is this fact being repeatedly ignored? What does it take to get listened to?
I have 75/25 in my fridge (not my preferred but all the store had, and fat does not matter too me too much as long as it’s not too lean).
I tried this today anyway. It was $8.69 for a meal, which is probably on the low-end for a decently filling fast food meal at this point in my area. Probably my 3rd time buying fast food in the COVID era. I went in the early afternoon to avoid lines. First Arbys was out. 2nd Arbys (2 within 2 miles of my house) had it.
It was… not good. The only good thing about it was it was pink and the texture looked similar to a burger you would make at home. I didn’t go because of “waygu.” I tried because of the novelty of it and just to see if it was a decent fast food burger. As true fast food (not fast casual or quick casual or whatever) goes, I can’t really think of any decent burgers right now. Maybe the fresh quarter pounder from mcD’s and Wendy’s isn’t terrible.
The toppings were not fresh, which I guess would go for any Arby’s sandwich from that location right now. So not specific to the burger. But maybe they should try not to have soggy lettuce on a limited time hyped thing. I tried to not think of the toppings and soggy bun and focus on the beef, but either way it wasn’t good. Don’t regret buying it, but won’t get again.
Particularly a burger cooked sousvide.
At least if you are cooking sous vide you are retaining the fats. If you grill or griddle a Japanese-style well marbled Wagyu, the fat (which contains most of the flavor) is just going to melt out and burn (if grilled over fire or on a hot griddle). Of course, it is almost completely pointless to grind up Japanese-style Wagyu to begin with; the entire point is that the meat is already extremely tender and if sliced thinly (likely broiled or served raw) will not require a knife to cut as it essentially falls apart in your mouth.
It may be technically true that Arby’s and other American establishments can sell “Wagyu” beef as butchered from recognized American Wagyu or Wangus (heh) breed of cattle (Japanese Wagyu actually comes from four different breeds: Black, Brown, Polled, and Shorthorn) but I think it is generally understood that Japanese-style Wagyu beef is not just from the breed of cattle but is a result of the forage or silage they feed on, the treatment of the cattle (many types are a result of literally hand massaging the cattle), how the cattle are slaughtered and the carcass is processed, and the preparation of the meat. For Arby’s to be selling a “Wagyu burger” is at least moderately deceptive although I doubt anyone who knows anything about actual Japanese beef would be fooled into the belief that they are getting some premium delicacy.
The Japanese do, of course, import beef from Angus and other common breeds for Western-style steaks and other preparations but beef is not a staple of traditional Japanese cuisine like pork and fish are, and so there is not a broad demand for it. I’ve only seen Western-style cuts of beef in very Western restaurants in major cities, whereas Kobe, Hokkaido, Ishigaki, and other types of Wagyu beef are served in traditional style restaurants in various presentations but always sliced thinly, frequently in shabu-shabu (actually more of a Chinese and Korean tradition but common in modern Japan) or sushi style. Despite the claim that Japan is a “terrible place to raise beef,” it actually has some excellent land with highly nutrient-rich forage and artesian spring/snowmelt water for producing this style of beef versus the American free range or cattle lot methods of beef production. That they do not produce as much beef or are a significant exporter is a reflection of its relative scarcity in the traditional diet and the labor intensive ways in which they raise the cattle, not anything inherent about the land.
Stranger
Yup, I linked to that earlier in this thread. They do DNA tests to certify that a cow is purebred Wagyu.
I also see this marketing as being similar to Jack in the Box advertising their Angus burgers.
To echo another poster–yes, this is generally understood, but it is a general understanding that is not correct. Wagyu is the term for any of the four recognized Wagyu cattle breeds with origins in Japan, they have been exported for raising in the United States dating back to 1975, and some have maintained a pureblood lineage since that time as certified by the American Wagyu Association. The AWA does not have rules that seek to emulate the process of “Japanese style beef” produced by the various producer associations (Kobe, Matsusaka etc).
To me this would be like if people confused the term “Angus” for “grass fed”, people are confusing a breed designation (or technically–a collective term for four breeds–only two of those four breeds were exported to the United States, the other two have never been exported for breeding) with a rearing process, Wagyu doesn’t specify the rearing or finishing process, “Kobe” or “Omi” or “Matsusaka” would. Yes, it is the case that various entities in the American food industry have deliberately made this more confusing, but the we shouldn’t hold that against entities actually using the terms correctly.
It may surprise you but Japan is actually America’s largest export market for beef (at around $2bn/yr), this is largely because despite America’s vast beef industry, almost all of it is consumed domestically, with only a small amount being exported. However, Japan is our top export market by value, something that increased some after 2019 when various restrictions were removed that had been in place since 2003.
America is also Japan’s largest foreign supplier of beef, we represent 48% of Japan’s beef imports, Australia represents 44%, so those two countries are basically the entirety of the import market.
Between the U.S. and Australia around 500,000 tons of beef products are imported to Japan annually, which is a bit more than Japanese domestic consumption, so there is some level of demand for it in Japan.
Japan is a big country, so it can be surprising sometimes how much of something they might have even if isn’t a traditional Japanese staple. For example, Japan has around 2,900 McDonald’s restaurants, which are probably one of the major utilizers of Japan’s imported beef supplies. There are also chains like Japan’s home grown “MOS Burger”, which was a local Japanese man’s take on an American style hamburger chain, that has grown to have over 1500 locations throughout Asia.
If super marbled beef is cooked sous vide, a lot of the fat is just going to be retained, yes, but as liquid in the bag. At least grilled, there’s a little benefit from the drippings hitting the coals. But certainly not a good use of good beef either way.
Wait. The total Japanese domestic consumption? They’re importing more than their eating and stashing the extra or something?
Sorry, typo–should have read “more than Japanese domestic production.”
Only if you’re the type who thinks that selling Champagne or Parmesan is deceptive.
I’m certain that 10,000 outlets in America sell something called wagyu beef and that Arby’s is just following a gigantic crowd that has already put the word into common use. The fact that Arby’s is using the word is prima facie proof that it has been Americanized and genericized.
Interesting. My cousin just had his and he reported to me that he was equally as disappointed with the burger (2.5/10 was his rating), but his was way overdone and said it was dark all the way through, chewy, with no flavor. Wildly different burgers, it sounds like, but both seem to equally suck.
I mean, any time you eat at Arby’s and don’t walk away with food poisoning, you should count it as a success. As pilots say: “Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.”
Stranger
2 Things
Numero uno
In the excellent comic book Nth Man (imagine if Jack Kirby, a Viet Nam vet and Rod Serling made a comic book together) there’s a character named Doc Yagyu. Are the words related?
Numero Two o
Japan does not exist. It is a myth and a conspiracy. Godzilla is real. The Land Of The Rising Sun is make believe. Most people have it backwards for some reason.
Or wasabi. If you get “wasabi” in the US, it’s just green horseradish. Wasabi basically only grows in Japan because it will only grow under very strict conditions that you aren’t going to find in the rest of the world, and with real wasabi once it is grated and made into a paste, the flavor only lasts for 15 minutes. So, generally you take regular western horseradish, dye it green, call it wasabi. It’s deceptive in the way that selling unicorn meat is deceptive; you’d have to be a real fool to think it could possibly be real.
Never had food poisoning at Arby’s, because it’s no different than any other major fast food restaurant. At least, as long as you don’t go to this one.
At most places, yes. At upscale sushi houses, you can get real wasabi.
Similar to the above, I’ve never had an issue with Arby’s food when I would eat at Arby’s. I very rarely eat there now because, well, one, they’re much more scattered here in Chicago than they used to be and, two, they’re just not very good. I simply don’t like their meat. I don’t know if they used to be better back when – I hear stories that they used to roast and slice their meat freshly in house, but they don’t seem to do that now. If you want a good roast beef place that is a chain (but a local one), Anderson’s Frozen Custard in Buffalo does a good job with their roast beef (on weck, a type of caraway and salt topped Kaiser roll). But there’s some fantastic places for roast beef in Buffalo like Charlie the Butcher’s or Schwabl’s that I would steer someone to first.
My guess is that the character was named after the famous Yagyu Clan.
Probably not related. Japanese is a pictographic language, not phonetic. Words are most often related through what written symbols represent them, not what they sound like.
For example, look at “nichiyoubi”:
https://assets.bigcartel.com/account_images/1655788/nichiyoubi+color+1.jpg
That is the Japanese word for “Sunday”. Note that “Nichi” and “Bi”, represented by the first and last characters, represent “sun” and “day”, and are related words, and the characters are identical. They sound nothing alike, however. (If you’re curious about the meaning of the middle character “you”, pronounced “yo” with the “o” sound lengthened, combined with “bi” it means “day of the week”, so it is translated as “the Sun’s day of the week”.) Oh, and to make things more confusing, “nichi” itself can mean “day”, as in the common greeting “kon nichi wa”, which is the equivalent of “hello”, but roughly translated means “about this day”. There are many ways to say “day” or “sun”, but pretty much only one way to write it.
Sorry for the tangent, but hopefully that makes sense.