I guess I can tell you all, I am a white male. But I have spent a lot of time around African Americans.
I grew up in an African American neighborhood. My grade school was about half AA, when I graduated.
And one thing I seemed to notice, African Americans, African American men in particular, seem to be more secure in their sexuality, than white men.
I’ll share with you all a few of my observations. I know among black boys, calling them gay wasn’t the worst put down you could use. Or in any event, it didn’t seem to make them too angry. (I posted this observation before on these boards, and it was dismissed. But I still contend it’s true.) The following year, when I went to an all-white high school, it was actually a prelude to a serious fight, I soon found out.
Also, take this whatever way you wish, African American men often wear hairstyles and other things that white men would consider, well, effeminate. Braids, corn rolls, beads in their hair. Also, I think it is an established fact, that black men often form closer friendships with other males, than white men do. Among white men, it is often called a bromance, or other words that I can’t repeat, that imply homosexuality. Because there is this code, among white men, that men are not supposed to become that close, even when it is clearly non-sexual. I surely am not the first person to notice all these things.
Has anyone else noticed these things? And am I right in my observations?
A more general observation is that men in tenuous economic situations or those engaged in organized crime tend to assume an exaggerated posture of masculinity.
White Southern culture has many examples of hyperbolic masculinity, few more ridiculous than truck nuts
The Italian, Russian, or Japanese mobs
Hispanic machismo
Stereotypical American black street culture
Muslim jihadists
By comparison, rich cultures produce men who are cosmopolitan, effeminate, and soft. From what I understand this goes far back in history, where most any barbarians would think the “civilized” men were a bunch of sissy boys who prefer diplomacy over fighting, can’t ride a horse to save their lives, love to wear perfume and girly clothes, and pursue weak hobbies like reading, writing, and making art.
I don’t really know any black people so I can’t comment on that but in the rural south east of England the acceptance of “gay” culture is pretty widespread and normalised. I should think that “gay” as a slur is losing it’s sting. Certainly my kids seem far more at ease with what it means and how they should respond to it than was the case during my school days.
We’ve thankfully come a long at least within my own “white culture”
The stereotype, at least, is that black men are more likely to have problems with homosexuality. However, I live in northwestern Arkansas, and I literally had one black friend my entire life. (And he moved away because he and his family didn’t feel welcome.)
Are there are lot more black dudes who hug, hold hands, etc? That’s what the concept means to me–guys who are affectionate to other guys, not worrying about anyone (including potential female romantic partners) thinking they are gay.
I think this is confusing culture with psychology.
You’re unlikely to meet any outwardly gay men in Jamaica, where gay men are routinely attacked. Let alone in countries where it carries a death sentence.
It’s not so extreme in the black community in the US, but it doesn’t surprise me at all that bi-curious or whatever black men might not be so obvious because of some of the differences on average between black and white culture; how religious they are on average, how obliged men feel to look like men etc.
If you’re 100% you may still be brave enough to come out, but if you’re just bi-curious it’s a heck of a lot easier just keep that to yourself.
The first time I heard that blacks (men in particular) were more homophobic than whites, I was surprised and a little confused. My white (non-immigrant) friends don’t hug their male relatives unless it’s a funeral or special occasion and they definitely do not kiss other males. However, it is very common for my black male friends and family to embrace when greeting or saying goodbye. I’m talking about full on bear hugs here and not the handshake hug that could be more easily dismissed.
The “well known fact” of black male homophobia is usually presented to me by white people when discussing opposition to same sex marriage and LGBTQA rights in the US. Their support for this position includes the masculinity factor, cited by Wesley Clark and the religious factor that Mijin mentioned. Other oft-cited evidence of black homophobia includes rap lyrics and the extreme levels of hatred seen in places like Jamaica, Uganda and other predominantly black countries.
I think this discussion is probably better suited for IMHO but I can see why the OP set it up here. AK84 and Mijin both addressed the biggest challenge with this discussion. It is very hard to define what it means to be secure in one’s sexuality because we also have to think about what happens to that definition when cultural differences are taken into consideration.
The article posted by Fotheringay-Phipps does some work to address why most of us hear “black gay male” and picture Titus (Kimmy Schmidt) instead of Jamal (Empire) or James Stinson (HIMYM). Unfortunately, it only really covers the “down low” subset of the black gay male community.
Personally speaking, more of my family members have attended the gay male weddings than the interracial ones (black-white) but the dissenters are minimal (and dying off) in both instances.
I still say that homophobia and being “insecure in your sexuality” are different. They often coincide, but they aren’t the same thing. You can totally okay with homosexuality but hesitant to be affectionate towards men, lest you personally be seen as gay. And you can be a homophobe but still be affectionate with other guys–maybe because the idea that someone might thing you were gay doesn’t cross your mind.
If, as Frosted Glass says, black men are more openly affectionate with each other, I would generally consider that more secure with their sexuality. That’s what the term means to me.
Well, that and being able to talk about whether men are attractive. It’s another dichotomy of the sexes. Women can be affectionate with each other and call some girl hot without anyone assuming they want to have sex with them. Men to other men, not so much–at least, in the culture I grew up in.
Lol. I clicked on this thread thinking it would be about how African-American men don’t kowtow to women the way white men do, that they’re unapologetically interested in fucking and dismissive of any bullshit around it .
Carry on.
Biggest challenge to discussing this, is the term “comfortable with ones sexuality.” It’s not a culturally universal thing.
Past that, in many cases where I see it referred to, it isn’t really the the “actual thing” that the person making accusations about it, is talking about.
It appears here, that the OP is wrong in the opening post, in the most common way, with what “being comfortable about ones sexuality” really is. Basically, I suggest that when someone in any way conforms to the norms of their primary social circle, they aren’t showing sexual bravery (i.e. comfortable with their sexuality).
When I was a kid growing up, one of the semi-rebellious things for males to do, was to grow our hair extra long. We did it in order to conform to our generations’ expectations, and it absolutely had ZERO to do with “being comfortable with our sexuality.”
If anything, if someone conforms to their primary culture, no matter how oddly they may go about doing so, they aren’t showing superiority of any kind. And that includes (what I think is a silly social measuring concept) so-called “comfort with their own” whatever.
