I am also perfectly willing to admit that the belief that blacks are more homophobic may in itself be a form of racist bigotry. I think most people would agree that Obama is one of the most gay-positive presidents so far. But when he originally said he was not for SSM, I remember my WASP spouse shrugging and saying “What do you expect. . . .he’s a black male!”
Let me echo that the notion that African-Americans are more homophobic may indeed come from rap music. No less than Kanye West, back in 2005, said that everyone in hip-hop discriminates against gays and needs to stop it. That sort of discrimination in lyrics may have led folks to conclude African-Americans are more homophobic.
White evangelicals may be homophobic, but they usually don’t put references to that in the lyrics of CCM (or whatever else may be the stereotype for white evangelicals ;)).
It is incorrect that homophobia in the black community came from rap. Rap may have exacerbated it, but to a very small extent. No, the church is from where this sentiment stems in large measure. Black people in America place high value on religious adherence and being outspoken about the ills and evils of homosexuality is loudly proclaimed in many black churches, and its congregants are expected to acknowledge the denouncement of homosexuality. This practice has existed since well before the appearance of rap.
In addition, black men are taught that being a “strong black man” should be a top priority, and you can’t be a strong black man and a “sissy”. Black women, for the most part, will consider a black man less desirable if he expresses less than a certain measure of masculinity and are not afraid to shame him for it publicly, so there is a lot of pressure for black men to conform to the expectations of what it means to be masculine in the black community.
There is a lot more that goes into this, but that is the gist.
I’m not saying that homophobia comes from rap - but rather that’s why folks on the outside may attribute a disproportionate amount of homophobia on African-Americans.
I understood what you said. I was simply disabusing folks of the notion you, and others, posited.
I don’t think it’s necessarily “irony”. I think it’s more that this is one of very few areas where African-American voters disagree with the Democratic Party platform. For example, a majority of African-American voters backed California’s Proposition 8 (in 2009), whereas only 20% of Democrats did overall.
I’m a white Canadian so my exposure to the African-American subculture is minimal beyond the media. Can you go on about black masculinity in the US, in contradistinction with generic American masculinity?
I can’t believe anyone thinks rap music causes homophobia in the Black community. Oh, that’s right, I keep forgetting how simple-minded blacks can’t distinguish entertainment from real life in the same way you enlightened white people can.
If there is a cultural causal link, I’d examine the effect of huge numbers of males growing up without a father in the home, resulting in an exaggerated, charicatured view of masculinity, coupled with the prominent role of the churches, which preach against a multitude of sexual sins.
Since all I can offer are dumb, personal anecdotes…the last two arguments I had online with someone who claimed to be black…this person went straight to the homophobic insults. “You white faggots…” Classy stuff like that.
So, I wouldn’t say that the black community is MORE homophobic. Just that ‘they’ haven’t got the memo yet that going straight to the ‘fag insults’ is frowned down upon. I’m pretty sure if social consciousness could be rolled back, white people would love to be able to scream " Shut the fuck up faggot! " in the middle of a grocery store. The whole jock mentality of going there is still well-ingrained.
You can make your point without the casual accusations of racism. Plenty of black cops feared that “Cop Killer” put their lives in danger.
I mean you’re not REALLY saying entertainment has no effect on real life are you?
You think black people can get away with yelling about faggots in grocery stores because of things people said to you online? :dubious:
Yessss…that’s exactly what I said.:dubious:
Edit: Okay it kind of sounds like that’s what I said. I meant if social consciousness could be rolled back, it’s not like everyone would suddenly say…“No no. I’m more enlightened now.”
One cause of homophobia in some groups may be based on anti-western, anti-white resentment. In this way of thinking, non-white, non-western (eg. Russians, Muslims) groups view the increasing acceptance of LGBT in the west NOT as a positive thing but as proof that they are morally superior to the perverted, AIDS-infected west that dominates them.
I have seriously had, for example, Canadian Indians tell me that their culture has no gays.
Yeah right! Homosexuality was invented in 1968 by two blond guys from Yale who hooked up in the locker rooms of their country club.:rolleyes:
I didn’t realize it was a casual accusation, I would term it an assertion.
And yes, I am REALLY saying that listening to music has no effect on real life. I love the “1812 Overture”, and yet, I have no desire to fire cannons at people; I like “All About That Bass”, but am not looking for a fat-bottomed girl; I like “Margaritaville”, and yet, shall I continue?
When white people start blaming Justin Bieber for the moral beliefs of their adult sons, I’ll withdraw my allegation of racism.
I suspect it may have more to do with the fact that African-Americans are more likely to be poor and poorly educated than most Americans.
I’ll freely say that I think anyone who thinks that homophobia is just as commonplace in Scarsdale as in the South Bronx(which is heavily African-American and Latino) is being naive to the point of parody, but I suspect that people living in trailer parks(who are overwhelmingly white) tend to be just as homophobic as people in urban public housing developments.
None of that is meant as an attack on people who are poor and poorly educated.
Depends if some bodies pants hanging off their ass is a moral failing. It’s not like that trend spread comepletly independent of the entertainment industry.
It is a little off-topic, but sure.
There is an expectation in the black community for black men to be heterosexual. Being heterosexual is an important, albeit just one, attribute of the “strong black man”, which is a social construct that has taken deep root in the community. Gay men are considered damaged, flawed, and the opposite of the strong black man, which is why there is so much talk, disgust, and fear about the (ridiculously inflated) number of black men who are on the down low.
An aspect of masculinity in the black community is that a strong black man “handles his business”, which dictates not only to how he carries himself, but how he interacts with others, especially his woman/en with whom he is expected to have a firm hand…not in an abusive sense, but in the sense that he calls the shots in the relationship and his word is law. Yes, even in the year 2015 black women, to varying degrees, subscribe to and actually seek out men with this attribute.
Think of the mythical strong, silent cowboy; the man who has his way in life and his women with no compromise. This is the aspiration of black women for their men.
I know I am broad-brushing here, but this should, I am hopeful, answer your question.
I agree with all of this.
Would you settle for Ozzie Osbourne? Or, for that matter, Gary Gygax? Or maybe Bill Gaines?
So, the way a bully/very bossy person would self-flatteringly recognize himself in a Denzel Washington movie?
You say “not in an abusive sense, but in the sense that he calls the shots in the relationship and his word is law.” but according to this view of gender roles, what’s supposed to happen if the woman wants an equal say and will not accept that the man’s word is law?
In this view of gender roles, how is a strong black man supposed to interact with other men, aside from asexually?
For a strong black man, is interaction with other black men different from interaction with non-black men?