Complete WAG but my assumption would be that a veneration of hyper-masculinity as a reaction to cultural oppression makes them less likely to embrace any perceived effeminate qualities
I don’t completly BECAUSE I think a masculinity/ jock mentality aspect has more effect than economic pressures. That’s just IMHO.
So in a nutshell. If I’m growing up with no father-figure, and my social position is determined by my street cred, and gang affiliation. I think I would be more likely to bolster my position with homophobic comments and actions then if I ‘trailer trash’
Keep in mind that my thesis is race blind. I think a black, Latino, Chav or Southie in a gang are as likely as the other to be homophobic.
I was going to disagree with this, but maybe there is some truth to it. I remember that Dave Chappelle refused to dress up in drag for a movie, and he cited in an interview that there something wrong with Hollywood wanting to put black males in women’s clothing. Some of the other forums I frequent that have a high percentage of black posters talk about the emasculation and feminization of the black man. How white America refuses to accept strong black male role models.
No one is saying that. All races are usually believed to be influenced by music and/or entertainment, just like when video games and Marilyn Manson were blamed for Columbine shooting.
Also, many times rap artists stress the fact that they rap about their real life. It was a scandal in hip-hop when Rick Ro$$ was discovered NOT to be an actual criminal, but a former corrections officer.
Artists like 2pac didn’t make music solely to be viewed as entertainment. He was actually doing much of what he rapped about. Him rapping about being in a gang, going to prison, attacking other rappers and their label affiliates were real life occurrences.
Cam’ron is another rapper who actually follows the ideals he raps about. I think it was him who started the “Stop Snitching” movement in hip-hop. Cam’ron- “I wouldn’t snitch.”
Eminem had beef with rap group ICP, and was later arrested after brandishing a gun with associates of the group.
A lot of the arguments on rap forums is over which rappers a real and which are fake. The rappers who live what they rap about, regardless of the criminal nature, are usually exalted, while the ones who aren’t really in those streets, “doing dirt”, are criticized for portraying something a lifestyle they don’t live.
Good point. Although I question the role of the church’s influence on a multitude of sexual sins. It seems like people that discriminate against gays, who cite religion, have no problem accepting, or looking the other way when it comes to other sexual sins such as fornication, adultery, sodomy involving heterosexuals, etc.
You’re wrong. Music, entertainment, politics, religion, all these things affect real life. “Birth of a Nation” was just a movie, but it has been attributed to reinvigorating the Ku Klux Klan’s membership. I don’t think I would be influenced to put on a hood after watching that film, or by listening to racist skinhead music, but I’m not white, nor do I hold racist beliefs. That doesn’t mean other people couldn’t be influenced by that kind of entertainment.
In my area, a gangsta rap cd was released back in 1998. The gang-related homicides in the area went up. The cd was “G.U.N-XIV Til Eternity” and featured Norteño gang members rapping about selling drugs, murdering rival gang members. Here’s a linkto one of the tracks from the album.
A lighter example of entertainment influencing real life is product placement in films. Supposedly Ray-Bans got a big boost after being worn by Tom Cruise in Risky Business.
That seems to be a pretty clear cut case. The main counter argument seems to be, “hey don’t blame us, we’re only 10%!” From what I recall, that wasn’t the main concern. Fully 70% of black voters was the concern. The other argument is, “hey, it’s just religion!” Sounds like an excuse to me. Also, if 70% of black voters in liberal progressive California are homophobic, isn’t is safe to assume black voters in more conservative states are even more homophobic?
When I lived in DC it was near a park known to be the popular cruise spot for gay black men on the “down low.” There were articles in local papers about it once in awhile, and it seemed black gay men feel more pressure to remain closeted, for whatever reason.
Try again when you find examples of ADULTS. Christ, the claim was that rap contributes to homophobia in the black community, not black teenagers. Children may be influenced by all kinds of things; has a 13-year-old ever tried beer because it sounded cool in a country song? Probably, but alcoholism in South Carolina is not caused by Billy Currington.
Adults listen to rap, but even if they didn’t a lot of the beliefs you take in when you’re young stay with you in life. Which is why religion and patriotism is indoctrinated in people when their young. Same thing goes for racism and other forms of bigotry. It usually starts in the home, when children are exposed to it. They don’t easily shed these beliefs just because they turn 18.
Your edit made me laugh. 
And your point is taken, I think.
Dude, didn’t we just do this one? Obviously some people - and no, not just black people - do have some problems separating entertainment and reality.
I’m not going to waste my time on movies or advertising. My post was directly responding to claims about rap music.
Marilyn Manson did NOT cause Columbine, regardless of what crazy people say. You make my point for me.
Rappers rapping about real life demonstrates that rap imitates life, not that life imitates rap. (See my examples above, including the “1812 Overture”.)
I don’t know why gang members kill people. But I do know that correlation is not causation. (Except, apparently, when rap albums are released.)
I agree. I cited Marilyn Manson and the Columbine shooters to show it wasn’t only black music listeners who have been accused of not being able to separate entertainment from reality.
So film entertainment can influence people but not musical entertainment?
You said that people can easily differentiate entertainment from reality, implying that the subject matter in a lot of rap music is solely entertainment, and not real. And yet that’s not the case. Art imitates life, and life imitates art in return.
If you looked up the background of the cd I mentioned you would probably be less likely to be so dismissive of it’s influence. I lived in the area where the murders were occurring, I grew up around gang members, and I remember how popular and influential this particular cd was. In fact it helped start up the whole Norteno rap genre. Prior to that specific gang affiliation by Mexican gangsta rappers was subtle if not non-existent. After that cd came out all these rappers started having red rags all over their cover art, songs talking about killing Surenos.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hollywood? It’s not White America lining up to see Madea. Tyler Perry has more money than God. Ain’t no one making Tyler Perry dress in drag but Tyler Perry. White America doesn’t care about black male role models.
Now sure there may be some cigar smoking bigwigs suggesting, “Hey you know if you wore a dress…” But hasnt it been a meme for a couple of decades now that a black comedian doesn’t exactly have to be shoved into a dress? Figures Dave Chapelle would blame someone else.
If Dave Chapelle has a problem with black comedians in drag, maybe he should take it up with those one percent of the one percenters, Eddie Murphy and Tyler Perry. Cause a White America would be just fine never seeing those two in dresses again.
Not quite. It is not bossy or demanding, per se, but firm, unwavering. He exudes a take-charge attitude.
Then she will either end up with no man, or one derogatorily labeled a “simp”.
Confident, knowing, self-assured. Gregarious, but only to a point.
Not consciously I believe, but yes, definitely.
Gerald II,
This game’s not worth the candle.
Fine, rap music causes homophobia in the black community. You’re right, I was wrong. I’ve just been listening to Tchaikovsky and have an overwhelming urge to fill some Frenchmen full of grapeshot.
The irony being that if Les Miserables existed as an opera accessible to youths in the 1800s…I assure you that more than one person would want to start building barricades.
And isn’t that the point of almost ALL patriotic songs? To fill people with a fervor and get them to do something they might not normally do?
So if we accept that SOME music can affect youths, why can’t rap be included?
Mind you, rap would be way down on a list of suspects for me, but I can’t say it has zero effect.
I just want to add that I don’t agree with how critics and some politicians scapegoat hip-hop, and other genre’s of music for crime. For example I do think that gangsta rap in the 90s helped reinforce gang culture and promote it. However, I think overall there’s larger factors at play that have resulted in the nation’s current situation. It’s not one, but many factors that play into these things. For example, I would say that gun culture plays a bigger part in how the public views firearms. The idea of the action hero usually conjures up a gun-in-hand image. Our obsession with materialism and violence. But I’m getting off topic.
I think musicians have also played a part in getting more people to accept the gay population. You have popular singers like Britney Spears, Madonna, and Katy Perry kissing other women. Kanye West going on record standing up for gay people. Lady Gaga embracing her LGBT fanbase.
No, the claim (your claim, specifically) was that rap and hip-hop are singled out as a bad influence because they are perceived as “black” music, and therefore, people making that claim are doing so out of racist preconceptions. My point was that these sort of moral panics happen pretty regularly, and the targets are not always part of a minority racial group.
I don’t see how “adult” makes a difference, since, as far as I’m aware, no one is expecting Morgan Freeman to put on some hip-hop and suddenly thug out. The root of this sort of worry is that it will effect children negatively, who will grow up to reflect as adults the values they learned from pop culture when they were children.
I also don’t personally think that rap or hip-hop is a significant source of homophobia in the black community, but rather, is a reflection of the homophobia that already exists there.
In Sub-Saharan Africa the set of countries that have such laws is almost identical to the set of countries that were British colonies. (The notable exception being South Africa, of course.) The countries you mention were all French, Belgian or Portuguese colonies.
So your “proof” that these accusations aren’t racist and that they happen “regularly” in the white community is from 1986, 1982, and 1954. God damn, my argument is just in SHREDS!
Of course you don’t see how “adult” makes a difference. You think the argument “comic books cause white juvenile delinquency” is equivalent to “rap causes black homophobia”. They ARE equivalent, if you think black people are like children. That’s the kind of assumption I find racist.
By the way, the verb you wanted was “AFFECT”; learn how to use a dictionary.
I had to google this since I suspected the lyrics don’t represent Eminem’s actual views.
I don’t think anybody was saying it came from rap, we said rap brought it to the spotlight, and I said that may rappers-and-others will use slurs (homophobic and otherwise) but claim that it’s ok when they do it or that whatever the particular word is, it’s being misunderstood by anyone who thinks they shouldn’t use it.
Did…did you just tell a Mod “Learn how to use a dictionary”?