Yeah, he questioned my ability to use a dictionary, or the English language, or any language, in a different thread. So I returned the compliment. Glass houses, you know?
Oh I don’t really care. I think given the subject matter, everyone here has acted mostly with restraint. I think we’re ALL painting with a huge brush here, and I’ve been more than ready to fully admit it since I first posted in this thread.
I went through the countries alphabetically and got as far as Eritrea, finding about as many exceptions to your rule as confirmations:
Algeria: French (Illegal)(Not a sub-Saharan nation, though)
Angola: Portugese (Illegal, but may change soon)
Burundi: German (Illegal)
Cameroon: French and German (Illegal)
Eritrea: Ethiopian, Italian (Illegal)
One interesting confirmation, though, is Tanzania. It’s illegal in the continental part (former British colony Tanganyika), but apparently not on Zanzibar (a former Sultanate and one-time Portugese colony).
“Cocksucker” is not an insult I associate with black people.
Like bad cheese, your argument came pre-shredded.
I just explained why I don’t think adult makes a difference, and surprise surprise, it’s completely different from the argument you just ascribed to me here.
First remotely correct thing you’ve said since you got here. Well done!
Attitudes about homosexuality vary across Africa, but I would argue that they are pretty thoroughly modern, not necessarily holdovers from colonial (much less pre-colonial) times.
To give an example, in Cameroon there is a persistent and widely held belief that homosexuality is associated with particularly nasty forms of witchcraft involving secret societies, human sacrifice, and mutilation. This belief is so persistent that I’ve met gay people who have been genuinely confused about why they are gay if they know they aren’t involved in these horrendous activites.
This sounds absurd, but there is logic behind it. Some decades ago, the only “out” gay people were a handful of well-off members of the elite. In Cameroon, an often desperately poor country, the main routes to wealth is bribery, theft, smuggling, and other unethical things. And the paths to wealth are so untransparent that they are also deeply associated with witchcraft. It’s one of the few explanations people have for how spectacularly unequal society is. So people hear about gay people within the elites, and assume that like the rest of the elites, there must be something really shady going on.
This is an honest, genuine belief. It’s bolstered by the occasional mutilated corpse, presumed to be victims of ritual murder, which are found now and then in cities. And secret societies are a real thing, through not to the level that has captured popular imagination. Finally, this sort of thing is handy for politicians, as it’s easy to discredit rivals with accusations of homosexuality.
Hate is in there, too, of course. But the sheer elaborateness of the hate is a product of uniquely modern circumstances.
It’s worth noting that President Biya of Cameroon seems to slowly be turning a new leaf (perhaps noticing how angry we got at Uganda) and has slowly rolled back some of the laws.
I would have a very hard time believing this. Given the radical changes regarding the acceptance of homosexuality that have occurred in just the past several decades, it doesn’t make sense that any ethnic group’s current attitude towards homosexuality would be significantly associated with their attitudes some 300 years ago.
Nobody expects the [del]Zanzibari Inquisition[/del] birthplace of Freddie Mercury to be gay! (Actually, I am more surprised it’s not the opposite).
Belgium, most significantly. But I had to look it up; I’d say it’s the African country I know least about right now.
Zanzibar was an Omani and then British colony more recently than it was a Portuguese one (and Tanganyika was a German colony before 1914).
And, yet again, I accept your concession.
You find it racist because you’re attributing a non-existent attitude and belief to them.
I don’t know why Eminem has been given a pass by some for saying the words “fag” and “faggot” repeatedly, and making songs like “Criminal” when he raps:
My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge
That will stab you in the head
Whether you’re a fag or les’
Or the homo-sex, hermaph’, or a trans’a’vest’
Pants or dress, hate fags? The answer’s “yes”
Would it also be considered tongue-in-cheek if he were to say “nigger” or any other racist term for blacks?
“tongue in cheek”, did you say?
Did any of you see Eminem’s fake interview cameo in the movie “The Interview” - hysterically funny because of his homophobic rep, he says “People think my lyrics are homophobic, it’s because I’m gay.”
Full transcript and clip here but if he’s a serious homophobe he’s one with a sense of humor.
http://lybio.net/the-interview-eminem-admits-he-is-gay/comedy/
This is the closest explanation I have for what I see among the Greatest Generation and the Boomers in my own family.
Homosexuality is seen as an affliction of white people. (I encountered a variation of this when diagnosed with depression - my father wondered if I had “caught” it somehow at my elite liberal arts college). I believe I have seen eating disorders processed in this way as well, as something that only happens to white people.
I also see (in my family, YMMV) 1) an inability to relate to the struggles of others, and 2) an apparent belief that civil rights are a limited resource. So I get blank stares when suggesting to my black uncles that as a black woman I have a extra battle to fight in the world, and I have relatives (male and female) who resent attention given to gay issues, because not all the problems have been resolved for black people yet. These attitudes do not constitute homophobia in and of themselves, but they sure aren’t helping move forward.
So Eminem performing a song with an openly gay musician excuses the anti-gay lyrics and anti-gay slurs that exist throughout his album?
That reminds me of when whites who espouse racist views and/or use slurs towards black people but deny being racist by saying “My best friend is black!”
No, it explains that when Eminem uses the term “fag” he’s not using it to put down homosexuals.
If he hated homosexuals, then he wouldn’t perform at the Grammy’s with Elton John and defend the gay man in his movie 8 Mile.
And I don’t need help, from D-12
to beat up two females in make-up
who may try to scratch me with Lee Nails
“Slim Anus,” you damn right, Slim Anus
I don’t get fucked in mine like you two little flaming faggots!
So he’s not using homosexuality as an insult here? He was involved in a rap beef with Insane Clown Posse and in his mind, the worst insult he could throw at them was saying that they engage in homosexual activity.
- It doesn’t matter your [attorney Fred Gibson’s a] faggot!
Talkin’ about I fabricated my past
He’s just aggravated I won’t ejaculate in his ass*
Or how about the skits on from the same album where his rap rivals are engaging in oral sex with other men?
It’s clear that at one time he viewed homosexuality as something inferior, something to be looked down upon.
Or what about his explanation of using the word “faggot” when he doesn’t use it to put down gays, he only uses it to accuse men he dislikes of being less-then-men.
“Faggot to me doesn’t necessarily mean gay people. Faggot to me is just taking away your manhood, you’re a sissy, you’re a coward.”
All words and descriptions that have been historically used against gay men because of the stereotype that they are effeminate, soft, and weak. “Losing your manhood” is also prison slang for having been sexually penetrated by another man.
Maybe he doesn’t hate homosexuals. Neither of us can know what he’s thinking. It doesn’t change the fact that at one point in time he was spewing anti-gay rhetoric throughout his music.
If there were a rock performer who used the word *nigger *in the same way that Eminem used the word fag, who explained that “nigger to me doesn’t necessarily mean black people. Nigger to me is just someone that’s ignorant, lazy, sub-human”, and who managed to find a black musician to perform with them at the Grammys, would you also defend it?