Are conservatives or progressives more likely to buy their child birth control at age 13?

[Max_S]

This is a spin-off from the Politics & Elections topic, “Are Kellyanne and George Conway declaring a truce?”

Just pretend @Kearsen1 was the original poster. Here is the post:

@Kearsen1

Would progressives or conservatives be more likely to buy their son or daughter birth control at the age of 13?

Please give me a couple minutes to bring in the rest of the posts from that topic.

~Max

[Max_S]

Left_Hand_of_Dorkness wrote:

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

There’s a gotcha there, but I’m not sure what you’re trying to get. Wanna spell it out?

~Max

[Max_S]

Kearsen1 wrote:

@Kearsen1

Clearly I think progressives would be more likely.

~Max

[Max_S]

Procrustus wrote:

@Procrustus

But still unlikely. Yet, if a 13 year old is for some reason sexually active, birth control is better than no birth control.

~Max

[Max_S]

Kearsen1 wrote:

@Kearsen1

I do agree with that, however I think I would go to great lengths to prevent them being sexually active at all.

~Max

[Max_S]

CairoCarol wrote:

@CairoCarol

The best way to keep your thirteen year old from being sexually active is to raise them with good values and self-esteem from ages 0 - 13. There is no logical connection between holding progressive values and being incapable of, or unlikely to, do that.

~Max

[Max_S]

Left_Hand_of_Dorkness responded to Kearsen1:

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Sure. A girl has a condition such as endometriosis that might be managed with birth control pills (nb: not a doctor). A progressive is like, “Okay, hon, let’s get you prescribed with birth control pills, but we’ve talked about sex, and this doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for you to have sex, right?” A conservative is like, “NO DAUGHTER OF MINE WILL TAKE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS AT 13, MY DAUGHTER ISN’T A HUSSY.”

I was going to list multiple scenarios, but I’m having trouble thinking of any other scenario where it’s more than vanishingly unlikely that a progressive is going to buy their child birth control.

I notice also that you’ve completely ignored the difference in approaches to birth control that I outline above, in favor of a scare tactic. This isn’t a great approach to discussion.

~Max

[Max_S]

Kearsen1 wrote:

@Kearsen1

I didn’t bring them up because there wasn’t much to disagree with, except I do think virginity is something to be valued, for both boys and girls.

~Max

[Max_S]

Kron responded to Kearsen1:

@Kron

What, like infibulation ?

I preferred to just be open and honest with my kids. And told them to never fear coming to me when and if they needed any help with birth control. As a consequence, yes, my daughter, a high school senior, has been on birth control for a long time. And she has no fears of recrimination coming to me about any issues, regarding sex or ANYTHING else.

As a result, she’s happy, excelling in school, well-adjusted thus far, and has not had her long-term goal (of being a medical examiner) disrupted in any way, like so many other young females have.

~Max

[Max_S]

Kearsen1 replied to Ann_Hedonia:

@Kearsen1

@Ann_Hedonia

@Kearsen1

More evidence for things were better in the past.

But agreed, that shit needs to change. It it means that shitty parent’s get their parental rights stripped more, I’m good with that.

Do you believe that actions count when you are teaching your children, or are words enough?
Do you believe that setting a good example is a useful tool in the child-raising playbook? Is it strictly a family things, or do you believe that when our friends, neighbors and leaders exhibit good moral character that our children are more likely to grow up with those same values?

If so — do you believe that marital commitment, sexual morality, honesty, candor, kindness, empathy, generosity, compassion and humility are desirable moral traits? If you do, how do you feel about the moral example that Donald Trump is setting for your children?

Let say maybe you don’t. Maybe you are a believer in “every man for himself” . Maybe you think your own moral codes are strong enough that you don’t care if your own leaders have no decency. But if that’s the case, why don’t you care what anyone outside the circle of “you and yours” does?

Ok, first conflating Trump et al to conservatism isn’t a great thing to do (nor would I as a conservative relate to anything Trump does as a morally sound thing to teach my kids)

If you are going to use Trump as the beacon of conservatism, do I get to use the progressive version of Trump to use as the shining example of progressivism? Hell, maybe I have been using that in my mind.

But to my mind, 13 year olds have no business being sexually active, they are simply not ready for that type of responsibility.

Editor’s note: I believe Ann_Hedonia was responding to a thread of comments which was not part of the birth control hijack. Kearsen1’s response brought it into birth control territory.

~Max

[Max_S]

Left_Hand_of_Dorkness wrote:

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I (mostly) agree. I cannot imagine a circumstance under which a 13-year-old who’s engaged in sexual activity that requires contraceptives is engaged in healthy behavior. And I don’t think there are very many progressives at all who’d disagree with me.

I qualified what you said slightly, however, because I remember at that age having peers who were starting to have boyfriends or girlfriends and who were starting to experiment with stuff mildly beyond kissing. I’m not convinced that any sort of experimentation is developmentally inappropriate.

~Max

[Max_S]

Ann_Hedonia replied to Kearsen1:

@Ann_Hedonia

You do realize that the Republican Party, which is the official bastion of conservatism, installed him as the leader of the free world and have publicly stated that they give his agenda their full support?
He’s the President of The United States. On the day when we elect “a progressive version of Trump” to the highest office in the land, you can play your little “both sides” game. But not before then. You made your bed, now lie in it.
And I agree that 13 year olds should not be having sex. That why I’m glad I’m living in 2020 and not back in the days when America was GREAT. because in 1970, my emotional disturbed 13 year old sister had sex with several adult men, who took her across state lines. She was missing for 3 months. We knew who they were and what had happened and my parents tried and tried and could never get anyone to prosecute those men. Because she went willingly. The official response was that they were bad parents and she was a slut.

I know you’re gonna believe what you’re gonna believe, but do yourself a favor and don’t send them money because the entire conservative movement really is nothing but a scam, dude.

It’s probably easier for you to believe that an outfit called Right Wing News is running a liberal hit piece than it is to admit you’ve been had. But I tried.

50 Million Down The Tubes: How 17 Conservative PACs Are Spending Their Money | John Hawkins' Right Wing News

~Max

[Max_S]

needscoffee responded to Kearsen1:

@needscoffee

@Kearsen1

Would progressives or conservatives be more likely to buy their son or daughter birth control at the age of 13?

Where do you keep coming up with this?

~Max

[Max_S]

Kearsen1 replied to Ann_Hedonia:

@Kearsen1

I have some serious doubts about the Republicans being conservative. Yes, he is the leader of the Republican party, he is not the leader of conservatives.

~Max

[Max_S]

Left_Hand_of_Dorkness replied to needscoffee:

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I suspect it’s a misunderstanding of cases in which hormonal birth control pills are prescribed to young teenagers to treat another medical problem (endometriosis, severe acne, severe menstrual cramps, etc.) My girlfriend in high school suffered from undiagnosed endometriosis, and about 3 days of each month was in debilitating agony. She didn’t know the cause, but she knew that birth control pills were a common treatment for her sort of severe pain. However, her parents were religious conservatives who would never even consider letting her be on pills. When she moved out at 18 and got a diagnosis and access to the pill, it changed her life.

So when I think of conservatives furious about 13-year-olds getting on birth control, I have to wonder if they’re misunderstanding a situation in which it’s used to treat a teenager. I think about her–still a good friend–and it’s a little bit maddening.

~Max

[Max_S]

Gyrate wrote:

@Gyrate

Since we’re off on the sex education tangent, I’ll point out that there is little evidence that abstinence-based sex education programs decrease the rate or age of onset of sexual activity in teens compared to comprehensive sex education, and a fair amount to show that it doesn’t. In fact, quite the opposite seems to be true:

Like the Mathematica study, Kirby’s study came to the conclusion that there was no strong evidence that abstinence-only-until-marriage programs delay the initiation of sexual intercourse, hasten the return to abstinence, or reduce the number of sexual partners. The study did find that two-thirds of the comprehensive programs examined had at least one positive sexual behavioral effect. In fact, 40 percent of the comprehensive programs examined achieved the three important effects of delaying the initiation of sexual intercourse, reducing the number of sexual partners, and increasing condom or contraceptive use . For the purposes of this study, abstinence programs were defined as those that encourage and expect young people to remain abstinent, while comprehensive programs are defined as those that “encourage abstinence as the safest choice but also encourage young people who are having sex to always use condoms or other measures of contraception.”

Bolding mine.

Lots of teens are going to have sex whether we want them to or not. Arming them with information about the potential consequences of doing so - and how to mitigate them - is a lot better than deliberately keeping them ignorant and pretending that this will somehow prevent them from having sex (which, when they have it, will be without that full understanding).

My daughter is getting to be “that age”, and while we will very strongly be pushing the message that she should wait until she’s older to have sex, we’re also going to make sure she is properly prepared for when she does. That’s a lot more respectful and responsible - and more likely to ensure that she waits until she’s mature enough - than simply saying “No” over and over.

In other topics: has Claudia Conway actually filed anything yet? I’m not seeing anything.

~Max

[Max_S]

Now we’re all caught up. I’ll respond to @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness with something I found interesting (but not a counterargument).

Beyaz is only FDA-approved for acne in women ages 14 and up. Likewise with Yaz. Estrostep Fe is indicated for acne vulgaris in women ages 15 and up. Ortho Tri-Cycline, before being discontinued, was indicated only for ages 15 and up. In all of these medications, the pill is indicated for acne only if the patient wants to take an oral contraceptive for birth control.

~Max

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Max_S

Beyaz is only FDA-approved for acne in women ages 14 and up.

I’m not going to read all that labeling data, but it’s my understanding that doctors can and do prescribe medications for off-label purposes all the time. Is it illegal to prescribe birth control for these purposes for 13yo children?

In any case, the endometriosis/severe cramps purpose is the one that I think is likelier to be more important.

[Max_S]

No, not illegal (ETA: there might be a question about insurance coverage but that’s all contract law). I personally know doctors to prescribe things in ways the FDA hasn’t blessed with an approval, and I personally think doctors have every right to do so, and are probably wise to do so most of the time. But I think, if you approach the question from a puritan viewpoint, the lack of FDA-approval could provide some sort of justification for disagreeing with the doctor. And I know parents can disagree with doctors.

~Max

[Procrustus]

What are we supposed to be debating here? Most 13 year olds are not on birth control. The number that are is probably so small that we can’t really draw any conclusions about the politics of the parents.