I’m a member of many online forums, and it never fails, those with the most outspoken views, are just trying to push their beliefs for personal monetary gain. Conspiracy theories to discredit conspiracy theories, it’s all so obvious.
Jordan Peterson or Jordan Belfort?
It’s an old thread that I saw a response on in the new site format.
If you read the thread you will see me posting responsibly, and people really getting red about it and name calling, accusing, conspiracizing, and minimizing. To what end? To make a feeling they have go away?
I have never seen a thread where there seemed to be more trollbot- knee jerk
discounting of anyones insights: as being for commercial gain or from insanity. That idea is insane so congratulations on that intellectual advance.
You can sense very quickly a red flag in this thread: that the medical profession is not supposed to be inspected, or else someone will be called CRAZY, or GREEDY. Check the angry posts from anonymous people here defending all Med Profs from any shadow of doubt in this thread, a thread devoted to fighting ignorance on a medical issue.
MCM: Stick to the topic and the insanity and greed will all disappear and we will have reality: a discussion about an important medical topic.
It’s just impossible that this thread is really that “crazy” to you that it needs “conspiratorial explanation.” It’s a big old world out there, man.
This is an example of a post that sounds ideologically “off” and is trying to stifle debate here.
An anonymous person the net says that every medical professional they ever come into contact with, at every level of professional responsibility (!) is fighting to stop pharma companies from bad behavior, every day. (And you should shut up about it.) So that’s the real crazy in this thread, isn’t it?
You didn’t go to medical school and you don’t know my medical history, so you should really stop practicing medicine over the internet. That’s the only weird thing in this thread, your insistence that your knowledge is supreme despite having no professional training, certification, or experience.
You are being dramatic. I am posting here no differently than others. I am not aiming any insights at you or trying to practice medicine on you. You cited your testimony and I commented. That’s as far as I could go as a commenter, and there was no more.
Please cite the source of your grievance at me as a poster here. Did I call myself a Dr? This is an anonymous board for debate, not a Dr office.
If you’re not trying to practice medicine then you shouldn’t make speculative judgments on my case history. You can accept that I have lived experience saying your SSRI take is full of beans, or you can find a cite that supports you. You are not welcome to speculate on events that you aren’t party to, and you’re not welcome to pry into my medical history beyond what I deign to share.
I was commenting on what you shared. I didn’t try to go beyond that. Please cite what I did as a Dr here to harm you. You know other posters have families and life experiences to share about the topic. You shared your experience in order to debate my points, or at least I had to assume that.
You could share your experiences as third party reports if you want to. It was not anyone elses call.
This is BS. You dug for additional information, you speculated on details that you weren’t privy to. It’s rude.
Please stop asking me to cite things I didn’t say. In fact you’re welcome to stop responding to me altogether.
I asked a question because it was germane to the topic. If you regret sharing it’s not on me. You are projecting this stuff. I don’t care about your life except as it is shared here on some given actual point under dispute. Please don’t imply that I do.
You were advancing your argument by personal testimony. I asked a question. If you don’t like it don’t answer it, but what are you blaming me for?
Pantastic: “I don’t agree that a practice (prefrontal lobotomy) that still has living victims should be considered from so long ago that it is irrelevant today. The fact that something so absurdly destructive was considered a popular and fun cure and even won a nobel prize (!) should continue to serve as a warning against trusting the field too much, especially when it starts talking about miracle cures.”
The Nobel Prize recipient you refer to, Alberto Moniz, was a neurologist, not a psychiatrist, and the procedure he developed was not the prefrontal lobotomy as we know it. That was an “innovation” by Walter Freedman, who was also a neurologist.
Does that mean we should look with dark suspicion on present-day neurologists and thus reject modern Parkinson’s treatments? I don’t think so.
I don’t recall breathless hype about SSRIs being a “miracle cure” for depression, but as with many drugs, initial enthusiasms have given way to more sober appraisal of benefits and risks.
Whacking psychiatrists with the history of lobotomy is similar to the woo crowd’s attacking vaccination because physicians once promoted smoking in cigarette ads* or were slow to adopt handwashing in the mid-19th century. Give it up; times changed a looong time ago, and guess who was overwhelmingly responsible for the reforms? Physicians.
Shill accusations in the absence of evidence are foolish and sleazy no matter who they’re directed at, so hopefully shill-shouters can cut it out.
*it’s unclear to me how many of those “doctors” in cigarette ads were actors in white coats. In any event, by that time many physicians had sounded the warning on tobacco and lung disease, and for many decades, professional organizations including the much-hated A.M.A. have led the effort to spread awareness, ban ads and limit public smoking.
I don’t know what board you’ve been posting on, but the SDMB has always reacted this way to anti-science posts. You told people to keep away from SSRIs, despite them having scientifically been shown to work. You believe in the “Big Pharma” conspiracy theory, and conspiracy theories are, by definition, anti-science. Any proof they are not true is always used as evidence of the conspiracy.
What’s more, what you are arguing is dangerous. You’re telling depressed people to avoid a treatment that works for 50-75% of them, and can save lives. And not because of any decent reason, either–just your distrust. That’s just not moral.
So, yeah, you’re going to get a lot of pushback, because we’re trying to save people from your ignorance, not unlike when we get really angry about people who spread false information about wearing masks.
This isn’t a mere intellectual exercise for most of us. I, like others, am a lot better because I got on the drug you’re telling people to avoid, with the doctors you distrust. And, even if I wasn’t, I would have wanted to try it to see.
Are there some bad psych doctors? Of course. That’s reason to do your own research and force them to use evidence-based treatments. Not to avoid them.
What Big T said.
Whacking psychiatrists with the history of lobotomy is similar to the woo crowd’s attacking vaccination because physicians once promoted smoking in cigarette ads* or were slow to adopt handwashing in the mid-19th century. Give it up; times changed a looong time ago, and guess who was overwhelmingly responsible for the reforms? Physicians.
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All of what Jackmanni said. All of it.
I’m not anti science in the least.
You are calling the abuses of pharma companies a “conspiracy theory.” ? Do some reading.
Can you tie this in with my points?
My message in this thread has been watch what you put in your brain, do the due dilligence, and recognize that you might want to get off them some day. I am much much less dangerous than the posters here who have been ad hominem name calling.
Pushback and not arguments or cites. Just fear and indignance at someone fighting ignorance. You go for it.
It is not an exercise for me, and I think I sound sincere here.
?You can’t avoid Drs. That’s why I advise caution and to keep in mind that they are human. I don’t know where you are going here.
If you mean Give up questioning Drs or authority I think you are on a very dangerous path.
If I go the ER with a broken bone I will ask about meds for pain, and they will say they’ll get back to you before you get discharged. Then they come in at the end with 2 medium strength tylenol and want to charge your Ins company $50. Who in that situation was looking out for me? The answer is just Me. I told them I had pills at home.
I’ll check out now. But this thread is mostly people who have not gotten off of, or not had trouble getting off the meds. I’m just saying that there is a bigger world of experience out there and it can be very hard compared with the problems that sent you to the med in the first place.
We should look with skepticism at any claims of miracle cures, yes. Pretending that being skeptical of overblown claims is the same as ‘reject modern treatments’ is an absurd strawman that no one is actually making in this thread as far as I’ve noticed, and certainly not my position. The fact that you are trying to conflate ‘treat these claims with skepticism when there is a distinct lack of reproducible results to back the claims’ with ‘reject all modern treatments’ indicates that you’re not attempting to argue in good faith.
Your memory issues don’t change the reality. And definitely don’t invalidate the experience of myself and others who had these drugs pushed on us as a miracle cure with the insistence that if we just kept trying different ones eventually one would make everything better.
It’s not remotely similar. Vaccination has decades of research and reproducible supporting it. Lobotomy had a lot of enthusiasm in spite of obvious, repeated horrific results. Anyone denying the history of psychiatry, which includes the era of lobotomy fever (and the era of classifying homosexuality as a mental illness, and the era of diagnosing black civil rights activists as schizophrenic for being angry, and more).
The fact that people in this thread object to even the merest mention of the history of psychiatry is disturbing, but not unexpected.
I have literally no idea what you’re even talking about here. Are you talking to someone else?
Drad_dog
Sorry, I did not mean that at all-my keyboarding tech skills are so poor that something got copied, pasted in the wrong place and then mis-addressed. I apologize for the hapless misdirection.
Just ask my friends-questioning authority is one of the things I do best!