But you said nothing about combinations. You said try solving the issue without drugs. I was responding to what you wrote. If your position is more nuanced, then there you go.
You did nothing of the sort. You either attempted to create a straw man or decided to project a lot of opinions on me that were not in evidence. Now you’re trying to claim that it was my fault that YOU jumped to stupid conclusion because I didn’t specifically spell out a negation to your nonsense. So there!
I say good day, sir.
Please don’t do that ‘responding to quotes inside quote box’ thing. It’s confusing and it could be construed that you were altering the text inside the quote box. That’s a warnable offense on the SDMB and I’d prefer you choose some other method of responding, however cumbersome it might seem.
Kind sir can you please remind me"? I don’t do this often and I forget how.
How do you do those parsing quotes?
OK.
What is the difference between various types of medical practice that I am factually wrong about?
How am I factually wrong about how different drugs are tested?
What is my “grand theory” and what is wrong about it?
You’re free to quote me.
Drad Dog, you are factually wrong about everything.
Anti-depressants do work long term for me and others I know personally. The evidence for that is just as strong as it is for other types of medicines. The fact we don’t understand the exact mechanism how they work doesn’t undermine the science of long term double blind trials.
Every doctor I have dealt with genuinely wanted to help me, of course there are exceptions, but they are not the norm.
Again you ignored my link to the similarity between your arguments and those on the CCHR website. Why is that?
My links are supposed to illustrate the behind the scenes relationship of Drs and drug companies, and to say that they are corrupting, and they affect what drugs get prescribed, how often, for whom, when do children get medicated, what’s considered a disease treatable by meds, all kinds of issues.
You may not think this affects you but it affects everyone, financially, healthwise, and society-wise. I believe that everyone should know this. Not just psych patients. It’s not hard to understand why it’s relevant to you or me or anyone.
The prices of these things is completely off point.
Tell me what the details of my wrongness are.
Give me the citations of the efficacy of your drug.
Similarity of arguments? Are you kidding??? I answered your post already yesterday at 12:09 PM. Please go back and read it. What is the point you are making? That I don’t think for myself? Really? Grow up.
Am I the only one who followed this debate and noticed that Drad Dog implied several times that he was not a Scientologist without actually clearly declaring at any point that he is not?
Really? You gotta jump in without reading too? You really need a hobby, maybe that exercises critical thinking and reading comprehension.
This is from yesterday:
I made a distinction before about organic disease and injury, and psychiatry. I don’t need to do it again.
The same Drs do not give you insulin and SSRIs. I’m talking about mental health, where the diagnostics are nebulous, and shifting, and in many cases imaginary, on the part of the patient, the Dr or both. Certainly they exist in your mind and not on an x ray or other objective measure. In mental health we don’t have the same objective guidelines as other fields. It is very exploitable. Think drug companies don’t know that? The info that gets to the Drs comes from the drug companies, and in my experience they will go with it. (You fill in your own reason why. I’m not a scientologist.)
SSRI prescribing is guesswork heavily influenced by that literature (And by grants, fellowships, consultancies granted by drug companies). They don’t know how you will react. It can be badly, or not at all. You certainly can’t obtain immediate relief, if you need it. You have to wait weeks to know anything. If it doesn’t “work” you need to take some time and get off them and try another one. If it’s "bad’ and you can’t stand to go in to your job in the meantime he may suggest seroquel or Risperdal or a benzo. Then you have to make a tough decision. They and you will make another “educated” guess about what to do with more at stake. If you are comparing that with what an oncologist, or a cardiologist does, that’s ridiculous.
If you want to believe the drug companies are not operating for maximum profit go ahead, but you know that’s not realistic. Psychiatric drugs are taken on a maintenance basis usually. There’s money in that. But you are getting lost in parsing my statements.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/wat...320378201.html
That is a link to a recent story on Drs, Drug cos, and $$.
Heres another:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...new-mafia.html
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2009...of-corruption/
Why do you need me to be a scientologist for you to feel satisfied?
Why do you need to pathologize me?
Read the last link and tell me you need to be one to be concerned. Cmon man
Whether or not you are a Scientologist you are delusional and seem to my untrained eye to have paranoia.
Doctors are ordinary people that train for up to 10 or 12 years mostly because they want to help people. People that just want pure financial gain become hedge fund managers or lawyers or stock brokers. There are plenty of industries that pay better than doctors. People working on fly in / fly out jobs in the oil industry often make more money than doctors.
The idea that the entire medicine industry is part of a conspiracy to get people needlessly addicted to psych drugs is a paranoid delusion. One that you share in common with L Ron Hubbard, who was himself addicted to a whole cocktail of psych drugs right up until his death.
Doctors are not your enemy and SSRI / SNRI save lives.
So, drad dog, what conventional Western medical wisdom and treatments DO you trust and/or believe in? Anything at all? If so, why is your opinion on it different than your ones on these particular kinds of medication?
Oh an here’s my cite about Elron being a chronic drug abuser until his death. He was drinking rum and popping pinks and greys when he wrote OT III. It’s not relevant to this thread, but neither is all the bullshit Drad Dog is posting about alleged corruption in the medical industry.
You haven’t answered or cited for one point that I made. You have a lot of gall saying what youre saying. I am not spinnning conspiracy. I am citing problems in the psychiatric industry, and citing many sources. If you believe I invented them you are truly delusional.
You seem to have an overweening obsession with Scientology which is your business. Leave me out of that romance.
Please provide your citation for rebuttal on the facts from the links cited or be quiet.
Please provide citation of my “delusions”.
I’m like everyone else. I never once said here that people should not try to get help.
I’m just trying to keep my eyes open, and I have had some bad experiences.
I am not the poster boy for complaining about the medical establishment. The problems are out there. I am really surprised that there are not more voices here that have read up on this. Although the more time I spend here the less surprised I am.
If you read the links I expect you might be cautious about medicating, not that you would never do it. That’s the truth for me.
I understand that people are invested in their care and their Drs and don’t like to hear negative things. But you have to read the articles and not hold me responsible for your discomfort. It goes back to real world problems and not some guy whose posts you don’t like. You going to troll me over what the New York Times says? Please.
I will not be quiet and and don’t need to rebut your facts because they are irrelevant to the point of this thread. I and others have pointed out links to studies on the long term effectiveness of anti-depressants and we also have numerous personal anecdotes of them being helpful.
You will not get the last word on this thread. SSRI / SNRI saves lives, they do work.
No, but I’m trying to get a sense of what your beliefs are. What medications get a pass from the automatic skepticism the subject of this thread does? Do you believe that the Times link you cited was presenting an argument to be skeptical of the entire medical industry and all medical professionals, as you seem to be doing?
How do pills solve “situational depression”? According to the therapist I went to, I should stay in the situation and take SSRI’s…
Crystal meth is an SSRI. Maybe I should just take that!
If you read the links you must have your own view on them. What do you think?
So what is your disagreement with me? That people should take psych drugs with more gusto and less skepticism?
Do you think I cherry picked links to make Drs look bad but that this is really my creative work?
Do you think that Drs shouldn’t be looked at critically at all?
Where are you coming from? You can’t limit it to SSRIs just cause the OP does. The problems are systemic and affect those “helped” by SSRIs too.
Changing your brain chemistry is a BIG decision. You just don’t know it til it goes wrong.