I would think NASA has complete control over the information the agency chooses to release to the public. If aliens do exist and visit Earth I wouldn’t assume they would want to speak to the general public. What would they have to gain from that? Presumably they would be much more advanced so it isn’t as if we could teach them anything and I doubt they would be much interested in our opinion. If they do exist and are here, maybe they are observing us. Maybe they are harvesting needed resources on their journey. We don’t communicate with the mice when we harvest the fields they live in.
I don’t think I’m a conspiracy theorist, but with that being said I have no doubt the Government has its secrets. If not then why have levels of secrecy ranging from confidential to Top Secret? As far as people keeping secrets, there are plenty of people in various levels of Government (in the US and abroad) who have talked publicly about this and other topics and generally they go through the ringer to be discredited or even disavowed by the Government in denying they have ever been affiliated. Just look at Edward Snowden. Being labeled a traitor and living your life looking over your shoulder in a foreign Country in political asylum seems to be a pretty effective deterrent from divulging secrets. Besides, most people that have spent the their professional lives working for the Government and living by Government rules believe in those rules and aren’t generally promoted to positions of authority with access to classified material by being wishy washy.
Agreed! I can see religious fanatics on end of the spectrum with anarchists on the other end.
Speaking of extremes, I think you have people on one extreme that completely trust their Government and people on the other extreme that think their Government is a nefarious organization that must be brought down, while the broad swath of people probably figure their Government isn’t always playing by the rules even with all the checks and balances in place to prevent violations. Snowden revealed that the Government was breaking the rules, which many people already expected to be happening, not the existence of Aliens, which many people either don’t believe or are at least skeptical. That being said, Snowden blew the whistle and pissed the Government off. I wouldn’t say that the information he revealed led to nothing at all. It led to a huge public outcry, policy change, and political fallout for officials who supported the programs.
I’m trying to keep this on topic, but I did want to say that when I said “no brainer” I simply meant that in this vast universe I believe it is impossible that other intelligent life does not exist. I didn’t consider that would be viewed as offensive. Besides, words like daft and dumb have now been levied! The battle lines are drawn! :dubious:
Again, no where did I say I have credible evidence. I simply stated that** in my opinion** some of the evidence is credible. I have no intention of collecting and presenting any of the evidence that I find credible because one, it was a general and not a specific statement, and two, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m just trying to have a conversation.
I can’t imagine it would lead to mass revolts and overthrown Governments. Even if a mothership made an appearance we would still need systems of Government to provide basic services. But imagine if something like that could happen and the people of the world suddenly tried to overthrow all their Governments?! Syria would look like a silly squabble compared to the death and destruction that would cause. No Government, including our own, would go down without a fight to maintain control.
Interesting article at glance. I’ll have to go read it in depth later. Wouldn’t it be disappointing if we were the only “intelligent” species given how destructive we are?
Another valid point.
Clearly I could have worded the title better, but try not to get wrapped around the axle. That horse has been beaten. :smack:
Gotlift, sorry you’re having to deal with the condescension in this thread. It fucking grates me to the bone and I wish people would stop. I personally don’t agree with your opinion, however I would like to throw this bone out there for my fellow Dopers to address:
The government keeps lots of classified information secret all the time. If aliens did exist and they did come here. I see no reason why they wouldn’t be able to keep it a secret.
Also to address one poster above: There have been some “death bed” confessions from some respected people who were formally in a position to know such things if they were true. There’s a 99.99% chance they just went loony in their old age, but still…
In a New York minute! Congress is constantly trying to cut NASA’s budget to the bone, they are working with dangerously antiquated equipment, and this would be just the PR push the would bring them back from the edge.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. If NASA is told not to release anything to the public regarding the existence of aliens by the people in power who vote to fund NASA then I’d imagine NASA would do as it is told. It isn’t like NASA needs to prove to the other levels of Government that aliens exist, since if NASA knows then the agencies concerned would already know. NASA is a Government agency, which is more interested in keeping the secret. People seem to think the threat of losing one’s livelihood isn’t a powerful deterrent that is used to keep people in line.
On another note, there is plenty of information out there about some of the sightings and questions raised by astronauts during the Apollo missions. People inclined to believe will believe it and people who aren’t so inclined will dismiss it as lies, conspiracy, or loony.
It’s not just governments that would have to be in on it. Tens of thousands (at a minimum) of astronomers, astrophysicists, climatologists, and backyard skygazers around the world would have to be in on the conspiracy in one way or another. This includes people in countries and groups that despise each other and have absolutely no reason to work together at all. This includes hippy researchers who hate government secrecy and would love to stick it the man. This includes political leftists in right-wing controlled places, and political rightists in left-wing controlled places. This includes apolitical people who don’t particularly care about the repercussions of disclosure on their government. It would likely also include god-knows how many journalists who specialize in covering either science and / or government secrecy.
And it includes the aliens themselves, of course. Any secrecy could only exist if the aliens strictly enforced it. So, are there not any dissident aliens? Any alien journalists seeking to reveal the truth? No political aliens trying to fuck with the ruling party or group? Not a single alien religious proselytizer desiring to convert humanity to its version of Space-Jesus? No aliens that are simply careless around a cell-phone camera (hundreds of millions of which exist and are in use at any given time)? No alien philosophers who value disclosure above secrecy? No alien war-hawks that simply want to conquer us and exploit our resources? Not a single group of criminal aliens who don’t give a damn about the “Don’t Reveal Yourself to the Humans” law? Not even any significant slip-ups or screw-ups by aliens working late on their equivalent of a Friday? Not anywhere in the past however-many decades? No accidental diseases or microscopic organisms start spreading?
And for how many years (decades?) do these tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of people need to keep the secret? How many generations? There’s simply no comparison to be made to any other secret ever kept in human history. The best analogy I can come up with would be to imagine if native American leaders had tried to keep the arrival of Europeans secret. How long could that have lasted? Even if every single European and every native leader was in on it, it couldn’t possibly hold up for long.
In short, the scope of the secrecy would be many orders of magnitude greater than any other secret ever kept in human history.
You really have no idea how things work in government, do you? First off, there really is no big “G” government capable enough, let alone powerful enough, to control all the different departments that are constantly fighting with each other over constantly diminishing budgets and constantly changing positions of political power. Our government just isn’t stable enough to even begin to contain such a secret, and there is no getting around that very real fact.
There are thousands of people trying to tell the secret. Backyard astronomers don’t have the resources that the Government has and when they request information, even through the Freedom of Information Act they are stonewalled or receive heavily redacted documents, or video evidence they claim has been heavily edited or airbrushed. History is riddled with examples of Government conspiracy and coverups.
How many tenured researchers? Professional astrophysicists? Climatologists? Former clandestine worker (spy, analyst, whatever)? High-ranking diplomats or politicians? Have all of these people lost their livelihoods? Have they been killed? Are they all worse off now that they’ve told the secret? What evidence have they presented? How many thousands (millions? billions?) of aliens are trying to tell the secret? How do you know there are thousands of people trying to tell “the” secret, and not thousands of people trying to tell many different secrets, some of which might not be true or might be misleading? (In other words, are all or most of these thousands of people actually making consistent claims?)
History is riddled with examples of governments (small-g, plural) failing to keep their most embarrassing secrets and most sensitive missions secret. Yes, there are countless government-related conspiracies and coverups. Nobody has claimed otherwise. Can you name a single government conspiracy that was even close to as large, long-lived, and secret as the alleged one about aliens? Do you know of any conspiracy that was kept secret by multiple world governments even when those governments were at war or in conflict with each other?
Do you think the native American leaders could have kept the arrival of Europeans secret? For how long?
Can you summarize what sort of evidence is presented in the book and what specific claims that evidence supports?
Maybe you didn’t mean to, but this reads as you saying here that it is a “no brainer” that there is at least some credible evidence, not just that you believe it credible. You are not being attacked for your opinion but for what you appear to be declaring as incontrovertible fact.
I just like the occasional documentary. I couldn’t possibly tell you how many tenured researchers, astrophysicists, Climatologists (not sure how that relates), spies, high ranking diplomats, or politicians have spoken out.
Excerpt from Amazon: From World War II to present, there has been hidden within the highest levels of government secrets that you are not supposed to discover. During the period of 1940 to this day the power brokers, working from their positions of trust, have committed and then covered up the most heinous of crimes known to mankind. Investigative journalist Craig Roberts, author of “Kill Zone–a Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza”, now provides us with the results of his ten -year investigation regarding the secret crimes and coverups of the U.S. Government. You will read his case files on such subjects as the Japanese “Devil Unit 731” who experiments on American POWs in WWII with germ warfare weapons–and what happened when the war ended and the commanding officer was hired by the government instead of hanged for war crimes; Operation Paperclip in WWII when the U.S. brought Nazi scientists to America to work for us on our weapons programs instead of standing trial as war criminals; CIA and military mind control experiments on unsuspecting citizens–including children–without our knowledge; Secret drug and bacteriological weapons experiments on the American population; Atomic guinea pigs, Agent Orange, and the Gulf War Syndrome; what really happened to over 30,000 U.S. POWs after World War II, Korea and Vietnam; International assassinations, drug smuggling and money laundering; What the media did not tell you about the shoot down of TWA 800, the bombing of Pan AM 103, the Oklahoma City bombing, the crash of Arrow Air in Gander, Newfoundland, the derailment of the Sunset Limited in Arizona, the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, and much more….
Thanks. I can see where you could misinterpret what I was saying. Perhaps I could rephrase it. In my mind it is a no brainer that other intelligent life exists. I also believe that some of the evidence that we have been visited is credible.
Do you realize how many times you’ve asked this same question or some variation of it? I’ve said it at least two times now, but I’ll repost it again. I believe this makes four times if you count the repost or quote by Johnny L.A.
How can I be anymore clear on what I believe to be credible?
Clear as mud. Apparently, you are going to continue on falling back on “credible witnesses” you never intend to actually name. Well, guess what: every time you bring up evidence, I’m going to ask to see it, and every time you bring up witnesses, I’m going to ask for their names. You bitch about how you are just stating your opinion, but you keep inserting so-called “facts” that you want us to take for granted, and that just isn’t going to happen. Sorry about that.