I think you’re coming across as reading challenged as this is 180 degrees from the point I was trying to make. I’m well aware that there are a range of expectations in relationships from poems and posies, to bad boyness, to bright and shiny things, and multiple combinations thereof that may pluck a woman’s heartstrings. I’ve won several prizes for my poetry, so yeah I get it.
I am saying that classifying women who really, really like jewelry and similar material things as expressions of affection as “gold digging whores” is as shallow as any other characterization. If a guy is not a swaggering alpha male or an artist of some kind, a nice piece of bling is not a bad way of showing you are serious about a women. Conversely it is not entirely unreasonable or stupid for a woman to see this type of gift as evidence of serious interest and value it as such. This does not make her a whore.
Well, here again it depends on the individual woman, and what she likes. I enjoy getting flowers, but I discourage my husband from giving them to me, because we have cats, and at least two of the three cats WILL attempt to eat any floral arrangements or potted plants. And Bill and I just opened up our Xmas gifts. I didn’t get a single piece of jewelry from him or anybody else, but I DID get a huge stack of books, and I am far happier with the books than I would have been with jewelry.
If Jim got me a diamond tennis bracelet for Christmas, I’d wonder: A. who he thought he was buying a gift for and, B. how much we could have paid on our line of credit debt for the cost of that bracelet that I would wear once a year. I’m still not willing to call the woman in the OP names because her idea of living her life is different from mine, though. After having a couple of unemployed boyfriends, I wouldn’t even consider dating someone who wasn’t gainfully employed - did that make me jobist?
Nothing wrong with her demanding diamonds.
Nothing wrong with him refusing the demand.
These sorts of negotiations occur in every relationship, before and after marriage. Occasionally an issue is elevated to the status of a litmus test for continuing the relationship.
“If you love me (want our relationship to continue/respect me/etc etc), you would do what I ask.”
“If you love me, you wouldn’t ask.”
Every partnership which is successful long-term involves bilateral negotiation and bilateral acceptance of the outcome of that negotiation. We may not be able to define “love” but we can certainly define the practical terms of the relationship. The two parties may well see the meaning of the terms differently. Perhaps she sees a test of commitment relative to his previous one; he sees a test of whether he is willing to commercialize her.
There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension so don’t insult me if you aren’t effectively getting your point across. And your poetry awards are irrelevant. Poetry is not real life.
And you would be incorrect according to any commonly understood definition of “whore” or “gold digger”.
It’s not a bad way of showing that you are a chump who needs to buy affection.
All the woman values is the shiny bauble you are giving her. And she will only value you as a source of shiny baubles so long as you continue to be one or until she finds someone who can producer shinier baubles.
What is it about buying a diamond tennis bracelet demonstrates my serious interest? I had the money already from my career. I didn’t make it for her. And I clearly have enough of it that buying such trinkets isn’t a big deal for me.
No. There is nothing wrong with expecting that your partner should be a self sufficient adult. If, OTOH, you decided you only wanted to date lawyers or investment bankers or Internet millionares…
msmith537 just knows why a woman would value a shiny bauble that you give her: it’s a shiny bauble.
There are scenarios in which this sort of thinking is right on. Somehow, I feel as though she is missing some other scenarios, ones where people actually associate gifts with people and the significance behind relationships and the act of giving.
I’m going to go along with those who say that turning it into a direct comparison with what happened in the days of the ex was likely the proximate tripwire for escalating into breakup - he may have thought, uh, wait, I thought the point was that everything would be different this time… But at the same time I suspect that there were already “issues” afoot and this was just a trigger for something that would have erupted sooner or later (and a good thing it erupted sooner).
msmith is a he, and a self-professed alpha. He’s the type that goes after the women who like alphas, so his experience is limited. Heck, the fact that he “goes after” women at all makes his experience different from a lot of people.
IME, people with views like his are more into dating than relationships. Heck, some of his beliefs seem to come straight from actual dating books.
BTW, msmith: you insulted astro with the whole “You’re an idiot who doesn’t understand women” routine, so of course he’s going to insult you back. That’s one of those relationship things they don’t teach in those dating books.
Actually, don’t presume that you know anything about me. I have never professed to be an “alpha male” (since it sounds douchey to say that about yourself). And actually I have been in a monogamus relationship for a long time. Also, I’ve never really read a dating or pick-up book. My wisdom comes mostly from experience and observation.
My experience on this board has shown me that you are correct. The fact that I am able to strike up a conversation with a strange woman (when I’m single of course) does set me apart from a great number of people here. I never thought it was particularly exceptional. That’s just what people do. If you are jobless, you seek out a job. If you are single, you seek out women to date until you find one you like.
It’s not about being an “alpha male”. It’s about taking some sort of responsibility for you own life and not just letting life happen to you. Sure, maybe the sort of Michael Cera movie love happens in real life. You know, where the quirky (but beautiful) girl falls in love with the awkward, physically unimpressive but ernist and sensitive nebish in spite of his inability to even communicate with her. But that is leaving an aweful lot to chance, isn’t it?
let me ask this. If you are (or were) single, what do (or did) you do to meet women?
No, I did not call him an idiot or personally attack him. I said that based on his posts he does not seem to understand women. Just as I would have said he does not seem to understand astrophysics if he asked where the sun went at night. If he finds being told you are wrong about something to be insulting, this might not be the best place to hang out.
Plus I’m not in a relationship with any of you as far as I’m concerned.
Any woman who demands diamonds in a relationship is a moron.
They depreciate and are rarely/never worth the full value again. Diamonds are a big fat rip off. Might as well get her from Franklin Mint collectibles.
If this woman were really a heartless gold digger trying to snare this guy you think she’d give it all up for a bracelet? And you think this guy was in heaven for a year until this particular request? Sounds like the OP (and possibly the boss himself) is missing the whole picture.
My opinion (for what it is worth) is that the whole social context is being ignored. You see, it is obvious that the New Lady was a part of the social set 10 years past, and that set has not changed much in the intervening years. So the New Lady lives socially with being compared to the ex. In such closed social circles, status is important, and not receiving a pre-wedding christmas gift of similar or more value as compared to the Ex is a social demotion, and would provoke much comment.
So I suspect that the financial aspects were less motivating than the social ones - no less shallow, but maybe more forceful, and less visible to the man in the equation (whose social status is substantially unchanged no matter what his circumstances)