[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker]
I think what raindog is saying, if I may be so bold, is that if a black kid and a white kid both go to school every day, do well on the SATs, get good grades, head to college, continue to work hard and score well on tests, both do well on the MCATs and head to medical school (where they continue to work hard), then both can end up as successful doctors. There was nothing directly about their race that kept them from getting into college, medical school or a hospital anymore.
But, I’m guessing that raindog would also agree that a history of institutional racism in this country where there certainly was something about the black kid’s grandfather’s race that kept him out of medical school (as well as individual racism) has set the stage such that it is less likely that that hypothetical black kid than that hypothetical white kid has family members or friends who went to medical school. Or even went to college. Based on that history of racism, the socioeconomics are set that it is less likely that he could afford SAT prep courses or MCAT prep courses that would put him in a position to perform as well on those exams.
There is nothing in the institutions (college, medical school, hospital) stopping that kid from succeeding, but that is not denying that it is probably something more of an accomplishment if he does succeed because he (statistically) likely has more hurdles to jump to get there.
May I be so bold?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if this is the most powerful post I’ve seen on this topic, or if it just came at the exact right time. I’ll try not to fawn over it.
To start with, I agree with every single word. The fact that tomndebb thought otherwise is evidence that he doesn’t understand my argument, or the larger paradigm.
By way of analogy, you with the face’s great, great grandfather was a slave; his great grandfather was a sharecropper. Both were illiterate. His grandfather was a porter that moved the family from Mississippi to Flint Michigan for the chance of a better life. He got a job at Buick City, working for the UAW. His son followed him into “the shop.” In 1954 the modern civil rights movement was born, spearheaded by some guy named King. (and many others, not as well known) There was upheaval all around. In 1964, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed by LBJ. In 1969, you with the face was born. He was a beautiful baby, and his parents wanted the best for him.
Across town the same day, tomndebb was born. you with the face’s dad worked for tomndebb’s dad at Buick City. tomndebb’s dad had an MBA; you with the face’s dad had struggled, but finally earned a GED he was proud of. Strangely enough, they were both from Mississippi, and it so happens that you with the face’s great grandfather worked tomndebb’s great grandfather’s land.
One day in 1986 tomndebb came in from school and his parents were waiting for him. On the table were the current issues of US News & World Report and Business Week; their annual rankings of America’s colleges. (tomndebb’s dad subscribes to both) There were college applications, and reams of information on loans, and grants.
The next day, you with the face came in and asked his dad, “What’s a Pell Grant?” His dad replied, “I don’t know.”
In time, tomndebb graduated with a law degree from the University of Michigan. At about the same time, you with the face’s dad called in a favor at the local and got you with the face a job in skilled trades down at the shop, at $31 per hour.
In 1991, tomndebb was named partner. The same year, the shop closed and you with the face was laid off. He now works at Auto Zone for $11.50 per hour.
Was the difference in the lives of tomndebb and you with the face racism? No.
Was it the effects of racism? Yes.
The fact is, had you with the face’s grandfather attempted to attend Ole Miss he would have been met at the door by the Governor. (If not killed)
by 1987, you with the face himself would have been met by a counselor, given subsidized housing, tutors if needed, and subsidized meals and books. In fact, if there were few slots left, you with the face could likely have received enrollment even if his SATs were less than tomndebb’s, in effect bumping tomndebb.
Dealing with the effects of racism require different methods than fighting racism.
I suspect that if we dropped off the SDMB Victim Class (and their white patrons) in 1946 Berlin the conclusion would be that the war was still on.
tomndebb: “Look, the city is in ruins.”
raindog: “Yes, but the war is over now. it’s time to rebuild.”
you with the face: “No way. We’ve got to find every single last Nazi.”
raindog: “That’s not necessary. They’ve been beaten. They can’t hurt you now.”
jsgoddess: “This is the dumbest conversation ever. I hate Illinois nazis.” (obscure movie reference)
tomndebb: The bones! Look at the Bones! (another obscure movie reference) The war can’t be over!"
raindog: “tomndebb, you don’t see planes, do you? Do you hear mortar shells?”
tomndebb: “No way I’m trusting you.”
monstro: “I think the Allies see Socialism and Nazis in purely intellectual terms”
All:“Has anyone asked Askia?”
miss elizabeth: “As a white person I try very hard to recognize that I am privileged to a lifestyle Jewish people will not have in my lifetime.”
raindog: " I assure you, the war is over. Our efforts should be towards rebuidling, not fighting."
tomndebb: “So you’re saying the war never happened?!”
raindog: “Of course not.”
tomndebb:“For God’s sake, you’re denying the holocaust!”
raindog: “Tom! That’s absurd!”
jsgoddess: “I’ll bet you wouldn’t say that to Gary Sheffield. He’ll kick your ass!”
raindog: “Instead of buying more tanks, I suggest we buy back hoes, and bulldozers.”
Monstro: “How will I fight the Nazi cab drivers?”
raindog: “Do we need to?”
Guinastasia: “You should have run him over”
raindog: “Look around you. There are no Nazis firing on us. No planes. No tanks. No mortar shells. "
tomndebb: " But someone was killed yesterday by a sniper. I say we need tanks, thousands of them.”
raindog: “Yes, but we don’t respond to snipers with tanks. We are vigilant and we have the necessary weapons for that threat. I assure you that we have appealed to the german population and let them know that we intend no harm. Former Nazis are invited to join us, as long as they reoudiate Nazism.”
you with the face: They won’t.
raindog: Some won’t. Those we will fire. Some we will jail. Some we will kill. But our efforts should be towards retraining our soldiers to be carpenters and bricklayers. Our efforts should be towards rebuilding. It’s called Affirmitive Action. "
Little Nemo: “Do you even know a Jew? Huh?”
raindog: “Uh, well…”
Sumisu_919: “Liar! He’s a Jew Hater!”
Hippy Hollow: “Sure enough. He’s in Denial.”
