The colored water fountains are a thing of the past. Back of the bus is done. No more whites only parks, restaurants or washrooms. THAT is institutional racism.
Because one person, or even a group of people within an organization remain staunchly ignorant about the perils and evils of racism does not mean that the organization itself by definition is racist.
If I know something without the ability to prove it, what good is that knowledge except to me? Proof will help root out the scoundrels, without it, the knowledge and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
I disagree. I still attribute the racism to the people who are racist. I would posit that should the owners/board/whoever above the heads of the managers find out what the managers are up to, they’d put the kaibash on it. If the absolute head/owner/board of the place institutes a policy of racism, overt or covert, then it’s time to act (if it is proper to do so, which it isn’t always, even if the group is overtly racist).
Originally Posted by you with the face
Do believe there’s an inherent athletic advantage confered by race or are you posting stuff without thinking?
If Shodan won’t answer it, I will. Yes. There is.
Take a look at everyone from Swedes to Kenyans to Pacific Islanders to Aboriginal people of Australia. Each has an inherent athletic advantage, confered by race, over the other for their own specific environments.
The good of the knowledge is that it’s knowledge. It can inform Tom’s opinions (and the opinions of those who find him a credible witness) about the prevalence of racism in corporate America.
This is a phoney argument, nobody’s talking about instutional racism except a handful of folks including you that want to argue that a particular type of racism doesn’t exist while avoiding the discussion of the racism that does otherwise known as being in a state of denial.
As I said, the knowledge is good to he who holds it, (me in my example) and to those that choose to listen, but the knowledge itself minus the proof is not sufficient cause for action.
Okay, so you concede that institutional racism does not exist, so there can only be racist individuals. The onus is still on you to prove that they are numerous and powerful enough in aggregate to be something significant (and therefore possible to be “in denial” about.) A handful of secondhand anecdotes won’t do the trick.
Like I said the argument isn’t about institutionalized racism and if one read the excerpts from the sites containing studies that I posted one would see that racism is still a big problem despite not being state sanctioned.
The phrase “institutional racism” explicitly means those actions undertaken within society that are not explicitly intended to enforce racial bigotry, but that do so based on underlying, (and, generally, unconsiderd) assumptions. That is how the phrase was coined and that is how it has been used for 40 years.
Attempting to identify de jure racism as institutional racism (or trying to redefine institutional racism as the active and deliberate efforts of a specific institution) merely redefines an accepted term that has an established meaning to give it an inaccurate meaning.
Redlining was a form of institutional racism. Banks looked at neighborhoods that were in decay and set higher premiums for loans, based on risk. If they had done that by looking at each street and noting whether a particular block was in decay, that would not have been institutional racism. What they did, instead, however, was note that some several blocks of an area were in decay, then “to be cautious” drew their red line around an entire area based on the fact that the inhabitants were black. By making it harder to get home loans or home improvement loans in those areas they hastened the decline of the neighborhoods, then ratiionalized their initial decisions by saying “See, our higher rates were prudent.” They did not deliberately harm themselves by devaluing the properties on which they held mortgages, but they wound up harming themselves based on unconsidered assumptions about black buyers and homeowners. (Yes, I am aware that redlining is now illegal. I ma not holding this forth as a current example, simply an easily understood example of institutional racism.)
DWB is institutional racism. The neutral police concept is that things that are out of place are suspect. The application becomes “blacks are out of place in this neighborhood”–even when there is no history of black crime in a particular neighborhood or even when black families have begun to move into the neighborhood. The cops are not racists, they are simply accepting a particular traditional police concept without spending enough energy examining whether it is correctly applied. Some unconsidered assumptions are innocent, as when a cop thinks there will be more trouble under a full moon, but become a matter of racial discrimination when such unconsidered assumptions are used to harrass black drivers. (Note that in the link I provided earlier, they discovered that using race was actually hurting police enforcement.)
Did you read the quote? It is exactly what I asked.
Apropos of nothing? I quoted your own question back at you (with a correction for your typo).
Actually, it panned out perfectly. You have contradicted yourself, above. Whites have no advantage over blacks, except for the advantage they get from racism, which makes it easier to get into the field.
Listen you, I never said racism doesn’t exist. It does, and we all KNOW it does. We likely all know a racist, all of us. Though I believe that we may be able to ferret it out to a great degree, but the fact is that it will ALWAYS exist.
I think it isn’t the same towering issue that it was even ten years ago, and that people capitalize on what it USED to mean to be anything other than white in America, and I believe there are far fewer ACTUAL victims than the public perceives.
I think that facing the issue head-on as we have as a society, that, like smoking and lead based paint, eventually racism will simply crumble away to it’s rightful place on the ash-heap of history. It will never get there though with the cries of RACISM!!! at every possible, potential perceived turn.
Frankly, what I think we have in this country isn’t truly racism at all, and more of a virulent classism.
I want to believe you’re being altruistic. My better judgement suggests that if “silly excercises and bad logic” were the basis for being sanctioned, you’d be court martialed.
You have failed to point out in errors in my logic and you are the one with the deep love for the “we’re still fighting the Nazis” analogy in which you invent things for other people to say that is not what they have said and is often counter to what they have said.
The person who started the thread is clarifying that “institutional racism,” no matter how broadly or narrowly defined, is not the entire point of the thread. How in the world is that a concession that it doesn’t exist?
Look at my history. Reread my posts in this thread. You may not agree, and that is your right. But it’s hardly trolling. I am respectful to you, and everyone else in this thread. I don’t know how long you’ve lurked, but I have a several year history with tomndebb, as an example. I respect him, and his intellect.
When I believe he’s wrong (which is fair amount, in my view) I tell him. He’s equally bashful towards me.
Given the stunning lack of diversity in this place, I can understand you figured it would be a love fest. Well, it ain’t.
You started this thread. You can’t run to the hall monitor when it ain’t going well for you.
You have my honesty, but I have no contempt for you.
It is my view that a well intentioned, sincere course that is patronizing and condescending is racist, and can’t be validated by good intentions.
So, in my view I see alot of good intentioned, but severely misguided, (and ultimately patronizing) text in this thread that, at it’s core, is racist thinking.
Patting ourselves rather hard on the back, aren’t we?
I’m of the opinion that calling your opponents victims, ascribing strawman positions to them, and ignoring the questions they put to you is about as disrespectful as you can get in GD.
