Great pitting faithfool!
You’re right, my bad. The outrage is right there in the headline, but the story itself is factual.
You might compare the CT header with those that straight news organizations used. In those headers, it’s all about a couple being sentenced for the death of their son, and ‘prayer’ or ‘faith’ or ‘healing’ are in there just as adjectives.
CT doesn’t even mention the dead son in the main header, just ‘sentenced for belief in power of prayer.’ And in the subhead, when they finally do mention that, oh, a child died, it’s “given one of harshest punishments for faith healing.”
No, they didn’t get punished for “faith healing” or “belief in healing power of prayer,” they got punished because their refusal to seek medical treatment for their children directly led to the death of two of their children.
But *CT *puts a very different spin on it, doesn’t it? In their headers, it’s all about the parents, punished for their faith.
Tru dat, and it illustrates the extent of the apeshitness of evangelicalism. They ARE the moderate end of evangelicalism. Along the same lines, earlier this month, they published a piece by a youth leader in prison for sexual abuse of a minor in his church, basically a “I yielded to temptation and it didn’t work out so well” piece, all about him, with the victim being incidental, kinda like the kids in the case we’re discussing.
This is your ‘moderate’ evangelical publication.
Maybe he’s this guy: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/05/02/barton-hates-women/
Bolding mine. If CT was trying to send out a warning to faith healers, they did a very poor job of it.
This is the headline - “Parents Sentenced to Prison for Belief in Healing Power of Prayer” Inflammatory and incorrect. They where sentenced to prison for allowing their children to die.
Is three to seven years in prison to harsh for letting two of their own children die? The parents where already on probation for letting the first child die.
Save the fetus, but never mind the child. Seems to be the theme of anti-abortion folks.
Yeah. As I wrote in that thread, I have a shitty neighbor. He has all these anti-abortion signs plastered over his front lawn and his car. For a while, he also had a number of no to prop so-and-so signs all over his lawn as well. That particular prop was to help improve our local elementary school. It involved a tiny increase that ultimately cost me about ten bucks when it was approved. But ten bucks is apparently too much for the old fart.
Hypocritical fuckhead.
Nevermind, wrong thread.
My wife and I don’t have children. We married later in life, and knew that it would not be a good idea to start a family. We have no regrets about that at all. Yet we do vote for education funding. In the conservative county that we live, a very anti-abortion county, education funding rarely passes.
Hypocrisy is the soap box that anti-abortionists stand on. It’s stunning that they can’t see that.
I have no children, by choice. Yet I vote for everything that increases education funding. Because I don’t want to live in a country of un- or undereducated people. I also vote for social safety nets that I will probably never utilize, because I believe in the social contract and am not a blackhearted fuckhead.
It’s always astonishing to me that anti-choice advocates are also generally anti-birth control and anti-sex education. Basically, they want to use parenthood as a punishment for women who aren’t behaving in the way that the anti-choice people think women should behave.
I’ve oft thought the argument that the fetus/baby cannot live independently is not a strong one to hang a justification for differing legal treatment upon.
We do not condone the killing of adults who due to disability cannot live independently. You cannot shut off some random person’s ventilator without legal consequence.
We do not condone a parent who fails to provide adequate nutrition to an infant. Parents cannot deny their baby food or water without legal consequence.
There are plenty of adults who cannot live independently yet the law protects their right to life. As such I do not see the ability to live independently as a defining benchmark in fetal development for legal purposes.
Biologically, even from the earliest moments after conception, that lump of cells is human and living. Whether it constitutes a human being worthy of legal protection is entirely a different question. A question with no forgone answer, as I see it.
No there isn’t, people are just piling on an easy target.
I think it was Barney Frank who once said these people basically believe that “life begins at conception and ends at birth.”
Hubba hubba. 
Thanks, man!
You, too, Shakes.
Then he shouldn’t work so hard to be a colossal dumbfuck, eh?
Yes, so much this. Every single fundamentalist I know that’s a huge anti-abortion supporter gives exactly zero fucks about kids once they’re here. All that mouth noise, whenever an unwanted kid does, that they’d have been “oh so very happy to have taken them” is bullshit. We in a quasi economically depressed area and people are all the time struggling and needing help taking care of their families, so much that they push their children off on their parents or distant relatives. The response of all those folks who sputter the above quoted nonsense? Nada. The reality is more like, “I got my own problems and family to look after, so good luck with that.”
It boils down to it’s so, so easy to fight your black little heart out for something you’ll never have to actually do a damn thing about. It’s slacktivism for the womb.
I try to contain my invective these days, but for certain special cases, my choices are to spew it out for all to see, or keep it bottled up until I have an aneurism. For my own sanity, I’m posting this. This is for **Hector **and everyone who thinks like Hector.
There’s a percentage of men who don’t like women very much. Sure, they find them attractive, maybe they like the way their pussies feel around their dick. But that’s as far as it goes, that’s the total extent of their fondness for women. Otherwise, they think women are pieces of shit.
How do I know this? How can I know what is in their rotten little hearts?
How I know this, is how they express their opinions of women in their everyday life, and in their political positions.
Those men consistently hold similar views. These are basically the same men who never wanted women to vote, or leave the house, or have much of a choice over their own future- whether she could have a job, or live on her own, or choose who she marries, or be allowed to seek a divorce. These are the men who have been in favor of hitting their wives, abusing them mentally, physically, verbally. Because that’s how a real man treats a woman, like a dog. How romantic!
These are the men who think that women who are raped should be forced to carry the rapist’s child. That’s right, a woman is not a sentient human being with the right to decide what happens inside her own body.
A man must have a right to infect her with his seed, and she’s got no option but to make him a baby. She has as much right to her body as your average barnyard animal. And that’s all she deserves, and that’s the moderate middle position, right?
That’s not an extreme position at all.
These are men who believe that women should be slut-shamed. They should be insulted and degraded, and given fewer opportunities, because at their very core, they don’t believe that women are people. Not on the same level as men. To them, women are breeding stock, that’s it.
If they intend to resist their role as a gestation device for random men, if they don’t want to be unwilling breeding cattle, why, they deserve shame.
Guilt them for being raped, shame them for wanting to be free of some pig’s violation of their body.
What a hero. Really fighting that *good *fight, aren’t you?
I honestly don’t know how the human species has survived as long as it has with assholes like this in existence- How there hasn’t been a mass revolt, where the women rise up and massacre men en masse. I promise you that every other group that has been treated in this manner has reacted violently, and deservedly so. And when I read in the news that some asswipe got his cock chopped off by a woman he pushed too far, admittedly, I wince. Because yes, I am a man, and I feel like my penis should be something sacred, you shouldn’t be able to harm it like that, no matter what you feel I’ve done. But why should that opinion matter, when there are a billion men on this planet that believe that a woman’s body isn’t sacred- That you can rape a woman, that you can force her to have a child against her will, that you can forcibly cut off portions of her genitals. Her body isn’t hers, it’s apparently the plaything of some man, to invade or mutilate as he pleases.
We got some real winners out there, who apparently never had a very close relationship with the women who gave them life to begin with, or they might think twice about treating women like garbage. But I assume too much, this presumes that they had a thought. I wouldn’t call what these people do “thinking”. That would be like comparing flatulence to singing.
There are a billion men on this very planet who don’t give two shits about a woman’s body, or her right to be free of violation. And unfortunately, some of them get to tell us all their asinine opinions in a free society. These are the same paragons of moral authority who tell us how horrendous it us for a woman to have sex outside of the binds of marriage. That a woman is a slut for engaging in any sexual practice, unless she’s legally bound to some man, who apparently it doesn’t fucking matter if he treats her properly or not, she’s still gotta be faithful to him, because after all, who gives a shit about women? These are the same arbiters of justice who suggest that a woman who tries to remove the filth that was put in her body by some rapist is the one who is committing the worse crime, or even a crime at all. These are the same fucks who think they’ve got to stop two men from kissing each other, or the rivers and lakes of the world will transform into blood or something. I wonder why we ever gave a shit what they think, because they obviously don’t think. These are the people who have a lot in common with your nutjob islamic radicals. They view women the exact same way, so you’re in good company. You disgust me and I’m not going to make any effort to hide that fact.
I offer these fuckwits several options to redeem themselves:
Option 1) Prove your commitment to your cause.
Here is how it works. I will break into your house and forcibly rape you with a broom handle every day, and I will eat your food and steal your money, and I will live with you for nine months. And if you protest and try to get me removed from your house, I will object, saying I have as much right to be there in your house as you do. Because that’s what you’re saying to a woman who gets raped and has to carry an unwanted child to term. She doesn’t have the right to remove an invader from her own body, because her body isn’t hers. It’s hers, and whoever else decides to break in. And oh yeah, have fun being violently raped, enjoy that experience, and pile that on top of everything else you’ve inflicted onto women. If you can manage that, and still have the same moral position after nine months, you get your pro-life badge.
Oh, but you also have to feed and clothe me and shelter me for a further 18 years. Gotta read the fine print. And if you try to remove me, why, you deserve shame. Because you’re a slut now.
Option 2) Cut off your balls and stop breeding.
Then, say whatever you like. I don’t care, at least your idiocy dies with you. Just stay the fuck away from women altogether. This is assuming you have balls. If you don’t have balls, skip to option 5.
**Option 3) Give a shit about the child after it is born. **
Adopt some children, and pay extra taxes to support these kids, and in fact, make sure the mother has the right to give up such an unwanted child when it is born, so she can go about her life. Make sure that kid gets their education fully paid for, and they also get adoptive parents, and that they never go without. And let’s be clear: none of it makes up for the fact that you’re asking someone to give up the right to their own body; that is an unforgivable trespass. But at least then, you’d be maintaining some goddamned consistency.
If you care so much about clusters of undifferentiated cells, then follow through and take care of them yourself.
Or I guess you don’t care about an actually developed and fully gestated child, and whether or not he or she gets to eat. I am going out on a limb to suggest the thousands of actual children who die of starvation every day don’t motivate you in the slightest to direct your moral outrage toward something positive. You see, those children can die of neglect and apathy, because once they’re born, fuck 'em.
If they don’t have any money, or their parents have no money, who gives a shit, amirite? Let’s make more unwanted children so *they *can starve. Because we’re morally righteous!
As a matter of fact, if you think you’re morally righteous and spend most of your free time crusading against things like gay people or freedom of choice, you’re an obnoxious troll who should be castrated. You moral crusaders are all pretty much the same to me. You’ve never met a moral you couldn’t fuck up and then try to force onto the rest of us.
Option 4) Stop talking about this subject matter entirely
Because you’ve never once had an intelligent thought. If I want to read bigoted screeds of nonsensical bullshit, there’s always Timecube. Believe whatever you want, just please, stop shitting it out for others to have to read. Then I wouldn’t need to offer you my candid thoughts in response.
Option 5) If you’re a woman and pro-life, here are the rules: Say what you want, do what you want to yourself, leave others out of it.
You still don’t have any authority over what happens inside someone else’s body. I’ll give you more credit than I will a man, in that you’re apparently willing to suffer personally and directly from your viewpoint, but your opinion is still fucked up, and it has no business governing the lives of others. I don’t care if you are personally willing to suffer through your own ignorance, that should be your choice, not something you inflict on others. You get to fuck your own life up, not anyone else’s. It’s not like I’m forcing you to have an abortion. That’s the difference between our positions- my position has zero impact on you at all. But your position has a very real impact on someone else and can seriously harm them.
A cluster of undifferentiated cells, many examples of which get flushed the fuck out of the human body without ever being noticed every single day, is not a human being. It’s the potential for life, much like sperm. But unless you’re willing to make sure every drop of every bit of semen is never wasted, and each and every one of them forms into a baby, in which case you’re effing crazy, then you’re being really ignorant giving two shits about a zygote. They’re essentially the same goddamned thing.
This is a zygote. It has as much intelligence as you do.
It *can *develop into a person. Maybe someday, you will too. We can only hope.
But it doesn’t have is the ability to do a single fuck thing. And unless the woman wants it in her body, it is cancer. It is a malignant growth. It is a piece of shit that can be defecated out and flushed at will, unceremoniously, and it’s none of your goddamned business. It never was, and never will be. And you’re perverted for thinking you should be involved. A woman can have her appendix removed without your opinion mattering one whit. Until it develops into a baby and is birthed, any cluster of cells growing inside her body *is *her body. I repeat myself, but I guess the concept of a woman having any choice what happens to her own body is just too fucking foreign.
The zygote does not have free will. It doesn’t have a soul, and there is no such fuck thing. The fact that people like *you *exist proves human beings don’t have souls, because if they did, they’d spend five seconds considering what effect their decision has when they remove a woman’s right to decide what the hell happens inside her own goddamned body.
I’m sure you’d appreciate it if I got to decide what goes inside *your *body, and what you’re not allowed to remove from it. Because then, I’d get a gallon of bleach and a syringe, and go to town. And that would be fair and just, because if you, a total stranger, gets to decide what the hell happens inside of someone else’s uterus, then I get to decide what pumps through your bloodstream. And I choose bleach, just for funsies. Why not? Or wait, that’s not alive. How about Ebola?
That’s perfectly fair and equitable.
No? It’s not reasonable? Why is that? Is it because you think Zygotes have souls, and killing them makes invisible cloud grandpa unhappy? Because it interferes with His master plan?
It must be God’s plan that some of these souls get flushed unceremoniously out of the human body due to miscarriages that happen on their own, all the time, sometimes before anyone even realizes they are pregnant. There’s your clue that there’s no goddamned plan. No one is sitting at some desk somewhere going, okay, here’s Human Soul #20,467,577,394, and my big Divine Plan for this Human Soul is to grow inside of a zygote for a week and then be flushed down the toilet unceremoniously.
Great plan. Really well-crafted.It’s a miraculous and inspiring tale if I ever heard one. That definitely shows we’ve got a master Intelligence behind all of this. The mysterious hand of God at work! That soul definitely experienced a whole lot in its journey, where it never even grew any fucking nerve cells.
That’s what you’re up in arms over. You’re basically fighting for the rights of tumors. They don’t give a shit about what you think, dumbass. They’re literally incapable of giving a literal shit. They’re not grateful you crusade on their behalf. They’re essentially lumps of tapioca pudding. They don’t care. They can’t care.
You couldn’t give a shit about the thousands of starving children, but you do care about zygotes. Why is that? From where comes the misplaced outrage? It’s certainly not based in anything resembling knowledge.
Supposedly you pro-life extremists who consider themselves moderate (lol) have a functional central nervous system. So why do you care what happens to things like, for example, frozen embryos? As Lewis Black once observed, they’re not alive, asshole. They’re frozen. And if you thaw them out, they’re *still *not alive. They’ll get eaten by fricking mold spores within a week. Don’t leave it on the floor, the cat will *definitely *eat it.
Do you want to hold a funeral for all the discarded frozen embryos that have ever been? Should we name them?
If you can’t tell the difference between that and human beings deserving of rights, then you really need to not be legislating what happens inside other human beings fucking bodies. When you can finally explain the fucking logic that the potential for life and some delusional imaginary soul is somehow more important than an actual sentient fully grown woman’s actual real life, you have my permission to open your goddamned mouths again. Until then, try any of the five options above, or try that bleach thing.
Hector, you seem to like shaming people. Maybe shame is the only thing you’re capable of, so let me make sure this is down on your level. If you don’t like this post or the opinions expressed therein, I could give two shits. The same way you feel about women, because you don’t care what happens to them, you only care about the thetan faerie spirit energy potentially contained within a zygote, and that’s more important than the integrity of a woman’s body and her freedom to choose what happens to it. And that explains where women fit in on your scale of importance, you demented maladjusted asswipe.
I can’t believe we haven’t yet decided as a society that normal, perfectly ordinary gay people should have the right to get married, but fucktards like you have always the right to breed, and poison children with what you consider thoughts.
** TL;DR version:**
I don’t respect your position on this issue in the slightest and I think if you hold these positions, you’re a neanderthal, and humanity will not advance until the last of you fucks keel over and unceremoniously join the great dumpster full of discarded zygotes in the sky. Every time I read your mental garbage, it raises my blood pressure and subtracts minutes from my life. But I will somehow move on and have a pleasant day, and you will still be an overflowing bag of shit on an asinine crusade to reverse the progress of humanity, and then you’ll die, unfortunately never finding out that there’s no sky grandpa.
That’s because you’re ignoring the distinction between a dependent adult and a dependent fetus, namely the nature of their dependence.
Hey, maybe the poor guy has been having a hard time finding urchins to clean his chimney. It’s really difficult to get your chimney cleaned these days, you know.
It’s not the same thing. A fetus cannot survive without the very specific support of a woman’s body. It’s not comparable to a ventilator at all. The ventilator does not have other things to do, and is not getting sciatica, or sore nipples. If we could remove a 3-week old embryo from someone’s uterus, and transplant it into some equipment that would nourish it for the next eight months, until it became a healthy baby, that would change the politics of abortion, but it would so radically change the whole reproductive landscape, I’m not going into it in this post, and at any rate, we’ll probably have safer, easier abortions before artificial wombs-- which an incubator is NOT. Premature babies that are close to term usually do well, but very premature babies often have lots of developmental problems, and so far no baby has survived that didn’t at least manage to remain in utero for a little over half the time of a standard pregnancy.
So, disabled people may not be able to live independent of machines, and they may even be dependent on paid caregivers, but that still isn’t the same thing as co-opting another person’s body. It’s more like requiring a person to donate a kidney or liver lobe regardless of risks, or the donors wishes, just because the person is a match.
Nice closing and it defines Hector quite well.
I would through in “idiot” and “misogynistic”. But I think you covered that in your post.
Nice post PizzaGuy well worth the read.
Actually, in some cases they can. If the baby in question (or anyone of any age, for that matter) is vegetative and therefore incapable of taking nourishment by mouth, the next of kin is legally entitled to refuse consent for a feeding tube, or to have an extant feeding tube removed. Refusing or removing a feeding tube is, in every sense, denying that person food and water so they starve and/or dehydrate to death–AND IT’S 100% LEGAL IF YOU’RE THE PERSON ENTITLED TO MAKE MEDICAL DECISIONS ON THAT PERSON’S BEHALF. See also: Terri Schiavo.
A parent is entitled to not put a child on life support, or to have life support withdrawn. And what’s the placenta, if not life support?
This is true. In my reply, I was assuming an adult who is disabled in body, but not in mind.
Hell, in some states parents can even deny medical care to a very much non-vegetative child who has something easily fixable, in the name of religion. But then other people want women to carry doomed pregnancies (eg, when the fetus is anencephalic) to term and deliver, in the name of religion. It’s all about pregnancy and birth.
Even when you’re on the right side of an issue, you’re an incredibly long-winded, tedious blowhard. You should learn to edit for brevity.