Atrael, a defense lawyer is part of the system. Few people recommend DIY surgery. A competent defense lawyer stands a better chance of kicking this case before it ever sees a judge. (Oh, and criminal defense lawyers do more than merely plead down offenses). Its likely that Wisconsin has definitions for what a weapon is in the context of CCW. In my state, we have definitions based on the knife configuration and length. A defense lawyer would know how to get the knives checked without having to try the case. This would be invaluable. If the sensible way to fight this case is through supressing evidence, a defense lawyer would know the necessary information to gather.
Judges are in the business of deciding the information presented to them. A defense lawyer is far better situated to discover information and will better know how to present it.
Using a defense lawyer doesn’t mean that you don’t trust the system. It does mean, however, that you have a part of the system who’s obligation is to advocate for you.
The suggestions to get a lawyer aren’t just suggestions to make some lawyer money, they are suggests to protect the friend.
shrug…and like I said, that’s just the way I do things personally. To me, getting a lawyer is something you do when you have done something wrong. Not when you’re innocent. I’m assuming that since the knives were confisacted, that the judge will at least have a description of them. If they do fall under a catagory of weapon’s that are restricted, then you’ll have to rely on the person’s character, events as described by both parties, and mitigating circumstances. If the knives do not physically meet the requirments for restricted weapons, I assume the judge knows enough about the law to know that, so why would you need a lawyer to point that out to him?
Anyway, I don’t want to get into this, as it’s not germain to the OP. Aqua, the preponderance of people here are reccomending a lawyer. If your friend is worried about his “record” and the extent that it will effect his standing in the community, or his future employment opportunities, then he should at least consult with a lawyer.
Speaking as someone who had his entire life destroyed by being arrested for a crime I didnt comit, this is dangerous advise. Luckily I had a lawyer stand up for me, or I’d be in prison right now. The problem here is that the system doesnt always work. I lost my home, and my job, and had to pay a lawyer to have my record wiped of the arrest, even though I “did nothing wrong”. Dont tell me the system works, it works for people who can afford lawyers. Other people get to go to jail and pay fines. WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT A TRAFFIC TICKET HERE! This may be a misdemeanor, but having this sort of conviction on your record can screw you in the future.
I think the cop in this case saw the jewelry, and a knife, and decided he was gonna teach this little satan worshiper a lesson(cops dont often know the differance between them and witches). Bringing this up in court could save you, or it could backfire. Filing a complaint against the officer, saying he harrased him for religious reasons could get the charges dropped, or it could backfire. Get a lawyer.
That would be fine if just being innocent guaranteed that you would not be found guilty…the court system does not decide guilt or innocence, it decides who can present a more convincing argument. The man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.
The system we have is geared towards the innocent - we favor letting a few guilty go rather than convicting an innocent person.
However - defense lawyers are part of that system. In other words, it doesn;t make sense to say, “If I’m innocent, I trust the system to make that finding without my getting a lawyer.” Lawyers are PART of that system. You certainly wouldn’t say, “If surgery can cure me, then I trust the surgeon to do it; I don’t need the anesthesiologist.”
**
Your friend wasn’t just back from a camping trip. You said you picked him up from home, and then you were talking about where to go. Why didn’t he drop his knives off when he was at home? Why would anyone need to carry three knives with them on an outing with friends?
Why did the cop get upset? My guess is that when an 18 year old wearing dark clothing, a pentacle and carrying three knives answers “I’m a boyscout”, the cop thinks he’s being a smartass. People associate scouts with children more than adults. Sure, he’s a scout, but when I read what you’d written, at first I thought you meant your friend was being smart when he answered that.
And fair enough. You weren’t in the bush, camping. You were in town. Sure all knives have different uses when you’re camping, but that doesn’t mean you need to carry them into town with you.
Trumped up? You both admit he was carrying concealed weapons. How is that trumped up? Plus, he lied to the police - he said he was just back from a camping trip. You’ve told us you picked him up from home. If he’d been home in between, then he wasn’t “just back” from a camping trip and he’d had an opportunity to dump the knives at home before going out. On top of that, you say you also habitually carry a knife. Your friend must know it’s wrong to do that, or he wouldn’t have lied to the police. On top of that, you say he’s terrified his parents will find out. If carrying a knife in public is acceptable behaviour, and if they don’t have a problem with him carrying his knives where ever he goes, then why would they be angry at him for being arrested for it? If, however, they have told him not to do it, warned him to leave them home, then he was doing the wrong thing and knew it.
Did they say “black shirt” or did they say “dark shirt”? There’s really no difference anyway. An 18 year old male wearing dark clothing and what looks like a satanic symbol around his neck pulls out a large knife in a public place, and you want the police to turn a blind eye?
Let’s play a game here.
Your mother is picking up a few things before heading home for the day. Suddenly, an 18 year old male wearing dark clothing and a pentacle charges up and stabs her with his knife. Later, it is revealed that a policeman saw this male earlier “playing with the knife”, but did nothing. Do you congratulate the policeman on his trust and respect for a strange man carrying a knife, or do you scream and rant and yell about how your mother would still be alive today if that cop “did his job”?
I have no sympathy. Your friend was carrying three concealed weapons in a public place for no good reason. He lied to the police when asked why. You think he shouldn’t be in trouble for it, I think he damn well should be, and perhaps it will teach him to leave the dangerous weapons behind when going shopping in future.
Yes, because [list=a]
[li]Being a satanist, (even though he wasnt one)is his right, remember freedom of religion?[/li][li]The knife wasnt that large, and wasnt illegal[/li][li]he wasnt carrying concealed weapons. In most states, a knife has to over a certain length, and I know in my state the knife he had was well below that length. the larger knifes were worn in plain sight on his belt.[/li][/list]
I have a real problem with cops who make up their own laws. They arrest people who they know havent broken the law, because they know the legal fees and hassle will be punishment enough for that person being differant. The cop is a disgrace to his uniform.
My right to go out in public without fear of being stabbed by a freak obsessed with knives outweights your right to carry a knife.
You’re free to be a Satanist if you want, but if you make a religion out of worshipping evil, you can’t then claim harrassment when people suspect you of evil doings.
I realise that Wicca and Satanism are different. I’m talking from the POV of the cop, who probably associated the pentacle with Satan, rather than Wicca.
1st of all get a lawyer and clear your record! (tell the parents too)
2nd of all who the F#%* is this cop to tell anyone they didn’t need to carry a knife - it’s none of his F$#&*N business - and there is no constitional right to police protection.
First of all, yes you can claim that when that person is a cop, who is prohibited by law from harrasing people due to thier religion.
Second, anybody has a right to carry whatever the hell they want as long as it is not illegal. They hae a right not be arrested if they are not breaking any laws. Read the constitution, this is America. You right to feel safe does not trump someone right not to be illegally detained and harrased when they are breaking no laws. Don’t like it? Get laws passed against carrying any knifes, pointed sticks, or anything else you are paranoid about, if you can get enough people who are behind it. Until then, an American citizen has a right to sit around with fifty knives on them wearing whatever they want, and the cops have to leave them alone.
The police are there to enforce existing laws, when they break the law themselves, they are just another gang.
So say that I’m a Catholic, and there are people out there who read the Left Behind series or Jack Chick’s web site and have therefore arrived at the belief that Catholics are evil. By your logic, I’m free to be a Catholic if I want, but I can’t complain when these nuts accuse me of following the Antichrist.
Oh, but you were talking about Wiccans. That’s different because you know that they really are evil.
Cazzle, you do have a right to BE safe, but you do NOT have right to feel safe. Has there ever been a law saying if somebody makes you feel unsafe, they have broken a law? If so I would LOVE to read it. There have been laws saying you are allowed to carry knives. I doubt the laws in most states say you can only carry a knife if you need it. I don’t know of any laws that say you can carry a certain number of knives. In fact, I think tomorrow I’ll carry 4 knives just knowing I’d piss you off if you ever saw me I have my 3 inch blade I call a switchblade. It is not a switchblade, but the blade is loose and I can open it with a flick of the wrist. Just because it looks bad doesn’t mean I am going to hurt somebody with it. I doubt the lock would even work good enough to hurt somebody with. Why do I carry it then? Well, it is great for opening boxes one handed, and just 'cause I can.
Spud
(Of course, my thoughts will probably be discounted quite quickly, but that’s fine.)
As I understand it, you ARE free to be Catholic, and they ARE free to say you follow the AntiChrist if they want. Free speech, free religion, if I believe the Pope is the AntiChrist, I’m allowed to say you’re a subject of the AntiChrist and you’re allowed not to believe it. Still, Catholics go around claiming the follow the Ultimate Good Being, unlike Satanists who follow the Embodiment of All Evil. Tell me how you can expect people to think you’re a good person if you proclaim yourself the servant of Satan.
And I resent your remark about my attitude towards Wicca. I neither said nor implied anything about that religion that you could have developed that theory from. I happen to respect Wicca and would never say it is evil, because that’s not the principle it is based on. I have had close friends who were Wiccan, and have enjoyed learning from them what they believe and how Wicca has enriched their lives.
When all’s said and done, I’m glad I live in Australia. Americans have crazy ideas when it comes to weaponry, personal safety and civil liberties.
Not by me. Cazzle is being a bit paranoid, IMHO. I have a CCW license, issued by the state I live in. It is perfectly legal for me to walk into a bank with my .45 under my arm, or in the open on a belt. Sure, it makes people nervous, Especially bank robbers. I’m a newbie here, but it strikes me we have wandered into Great Debate territory.
If the cop had asked me why I needed a knife, I would have told him “Well, if i clip it to my belt, with the blade open, in makes a great Flail.”
I agree with the others who said to tell the parents and get a lawyer. And he should demand his knives back. Then he should leave the biggies at home. They’re no defense anyway, unless he really knows how to use them.
Don’t just pay the fine and let it go. Complain about the cop, too.
This kinda shit’s going to get worse, folks.
Peace,
mangeorge
Well, The Sonoran Lizard King, if you come strolling into my bank packing iron you’re going to be staring down the tubes of my 12 ga. Waiting for the cops to arrive so you can explain things to them.
Say hi to my brothers Charlie and Lloyd for me.
And welcome to the boards.
Peace,
mangeorge
I think you are quite wrong. The right of self-defense is a basic idea in common law. Besides, you formulate your opinion incorrectly.
You have no “right” whatsoever “to go out in public without fear of being stabbed”…or, in a more general sense, to be “free of fear.”
This is despite FDR’s famous fireside chats and his various “Freedoms From” pronouncements. These pronouncements were ex cathedra, sounded nice, but are not to be found anywhere in our Constitution.
What you do have is a right and a RESPONSIBILITY to defend yourself. There are plenty of people who would rather have someone else, such as their government and law enforcement personnel, care over them like a doting parent.
I have a name for such people…I call them lazy and cowards.
I am not a wisconsin lawyer but have perused the statute and some case law on the subject. The statute prohibits carrying a concealed dangerous weapon which, in turn, is ambiguously defined. The case law is a real dog’s breakfast where a knife may or may not constitute a dangerous weapon depending on the circumstances.
This is a technical case that requires counsel. I would bet that a lawyer could have these charges dropped without much effort.
I have my 3 inch blade I call a switchblade. It is not a switchblade, but the blade is loose and I can open it with a flick of the wrist. Just because it looks bad doesn’t mean I am going to hurt somebody with it. I doubt the lock would even work good enough to hurt somebody with. Why do I carry it then? Well, it is great for opening boxes one handed, and just 'cause I can.