Arrested for Carrying a Concealed Weapon----Law Dopers HELP!!!

I should probally clarify a few things in the OP especially for cazzel.
The knives that were over 3" long were exposed on his belt.
3 1/2" and under are legal for concealed carry in Wisconsin.
You can carry a freakin’ Batleth or Kitana down your back if you want to in Wisconsin as long as it is exposed.
The conundrum comes from the fact that the Officer saw my friend using a knife that he thought was large and then placing it on his belt. The officer had reason to stop and question my friend about the knives and what he planned on using them for, but he did not have cause for a tarry frisk. And my friend was being a helpful little suspect and told the officer what he had on him and showed him where they were. The other knife that the officer freaked out about was on his belt in a knife sheath. My friend’s coat was kilted up so you could clearly see the knife so it was not concealed, when the officer frisked him AFTER taking the knife from it’s pouch his coat came over the pouch becasue the officer MOVED the coat. THEN declared it concealed. That is the problem.

It is not against the law in my state to carry as many knives as you darn well please concealed on you as long as they are under 3 1/2" and they are not a switchblade or other gravity type knife. If you wish to carry a knife LARGER than 3 1/2 inches you may, just as long as it is visible on your person.
The only exception to this is in a bar or a government building.

Infact I frequently carry at least 2 knives on my person, on of which is about 4 inches. They are tools, I use them as such.

What I don’t know is what is the best way to fight this. Getting a lawyer is first on our list, but they are expensive, and he does not hae a lot of money. Thursday, however, he can get an appointment with the city attorney.

To address cazzel, my friend never lied, he DID just come back from a trip, and he had every right to be carrying what he was, the question was if he was concealing what he had.

~Aqua

It’s Cazzle, and if your friend had been home then he wasn’t “just back” from a trip. Plus, he wasn’t wearing a scout uniform, as I assume he would be if he was “just back”.

I’m going to bow out of this thread. My opinions are more the stuff of Great Debates, and even then I’m not prepared to change my mind about this. Therefore the polite thing to do is shut the hell up and let you people resume your conversation. Do have a nice day, all.

But are you allowed to be a cop who busts my ass while admitting it’s partly or mainly because you don’t like the religious medallion around my neck? This isn’t a free speech issue, it’s an issue of the abuse of police power. Can a Protestant cop tell me that he’s taking me in because he doesn’t like the crucifix around my neck?

You’re coming across as pretty naive here, cazzle. Expecting people to think I’m a “nice person” has nothing to do with my right to be free of harassment. Indeed, I believe that constitutional law establishes that it’s the most unpleasant, un-“nice” people who are afforded the most stringent protections: witness Nazis being allowed to parade in Skokie, Illinois.

An unprovoked, ad hominem attack on an entire country. Nice. You’re going to make a lot of friends on this board.

I posted this not realizing that cazzle had already scampered out of this thread with his tail between his legs. What a twerp, wasting our time.

All the same, I hope our responses have given some ideas for possible defenses that AquaPura’s friend can pursue. Remember that on every job application he fills out for the rest of his life, he’s going to have to check that little box that says, “have you ever been convicted of a crime?”

Ok, THIS is my last post to this thread.

Make that “HER tail”. I’m still reading this thread, but I won’t be replying anymore because this is not the place for it. I tried to email you to let you know this, but you have your email address concealed, so this was the ONLY way I could tell you that you’re free to say what you want but I’m not going to hijack this thread any further. Flame away, I just won’t be replying.

Get a lawyer. I’ve been arrested improperly before, and thought I could defend myself. The cop flat-out lied on the stand, and I now have a drug-related offense on my record when any lawyer would have gotten the case thrown out of court. If your friend doesn’t have much money, he should see about borrowing some from his parents, they would probably have an interest in making sure he doesn’t have a CCW charge tainting his record.

The vast majority of cops will tell the truth under oath.

However, it happens that there’s a slim minority that will lie to help their cases.

I have fond memories of a case in which the cop testified to the reckless driving he observed - he graphically described the smoke that came from the rear wheels of the car as the accused burned rubber in the parking lot.

Fortunately, the car was a front-wheel drive. Case dismissed.

The lesson here is that a lawyer can watch for any advantage and take it. Get that lawyer.

  • Rick

Ned

They seem pretty unambiguous to me. I haven’t done huge amounts of research on the case law, but the annotations to the statute don’t spend any time talking about what constitutes a “dangerous weapon,” focusing instead on burdens of proof and definitions of “concealed.”

AquaPura

I’m curious as to what you’re basing this conclusion on. I don’t see anything in the statutes which indicates there is any minimum size requirement to be charged under 941.23 and I find nothing in the statutes which indicates that knives of a certain size or smaller are “legal.” I routinely carry a cheap little single-blade Swiss army-type knife with about a two-inch blade. I sometimes have to go to the City-County Building in Madison and I always leave it behind because of the metal detectors.

IANAL, but he has the right to an attorney for any criminal proceding. The Public Defender’s office should be listed in your local phone book. I’d suggest giving them a call prior to any appointment with the city attorney.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

Fine, CazzLE…
I don’t really care if you respond to this or not, you may email me if you so choose if you feel it is more appropriate. I do not believe this thread would be appropriate GD matierial.
I suppose it would if I had asked if this was an appropriate action on the police officers part to make said assumptions that he did, however, I did not ask if you thought it was appropriate that he make these assumptions.

In the OP as well as the title I asked any Dopers who were familiar with the laws on this subject or had similar experiences if they had any advice on this subject. I didn’t darn well ask you if you thought it was appropriate to carry a knife or not.

I will repeat again, and sugest that perhaps you try READING the OP before you start typing. My friend did NOT lie, I picked him up from his DRIVEWAY, he had just returned from a camping trip he had not EVEN made it in the house yet. So technically, NO he HADN’T been home.

Furthermore all his knives had different uses had he been camping or not, one was serrated, one was a straight blade, and the other, smaller knife was a dress knife. He was giving it to me so I could have it engraved for him. IT is used for smaller projects.
You use the right tool for the right job.
Furthermore, I said he was back from a camping trip, I did NOT say he was back from a Scout trip. So whatever he was wearing was fine for camping. And believe it or not, even when Scouts go on trips, they are not required to wear their full uniform 24/7. It would get quite dirty if they did that. Lastly, I am ALSO a female, and yes, I habitually carry a knife and or knives and I still wonder what the problem is with that.

I thank you for not hijacking my thread anymore, and I thank the other dopers for their advice.

He really doesn’t want his parents to find out because they are not the most understanding of people. Wether or not it was a false charge or not would matter little to them. It would be an embarrasment to the family I believe.

He is a good guy, I jsut hate to see this happening to him.
~Aqua

Have your friend get a lawyer, yes…sounds to me an over-paranoid cop is responding to events that have happened recently but that does not preclude the ability for a citizen to carry a knife or many in public, especially when the friend did nothing wrong.

As for:

Ummmm, one of my fellow Libertarians here in C Springs carries a gun on his hip all the time. He has the right to, so according to the Constitution.

As far as I am concerned any persons can carry any weapon of choice provided the weapon is meant as a means to protect ones self, slice fish or open a package. If used in a crime then that’s another thing altogether.

Innocent until proven guilty is what it’s all about. Obviously this “kid” carries his knives for useful purposes and was not intending to use them in a manner that would perpetrate (sp) a crime.

Get the lawyer, have him tell his parents, if the kid is as upstanding as you say his parents will back him 100%.

My 2 cents:

Have your friend put on his Eagle Scout uniform with merit badge sash and full regalia (leave the knives and pentagram at home) and make a visit to the District Attorney’s office. Just ask the DA to drop the charges. You’d be surprised at how much your image counts. It sure couldn’t hurt.

They are ambiguous as hell, a vicious dog has been found to constitute a dangerous weapon under that definition. I suppose they are not ambiguous if one considers everything that could conceivably cause serious injury to fall within the definition but the statute hasn’t been read quite so widely.

A knife such as described is primarily designed as a tool not a weapon. If you stab, or threaten to, stab someone with it then it becomes a dangerous weapon through the second part of the definition. Had he stated he carried it for self defence, for instance, then the cop would have had a better charge.

Well, a lot of what are regarded as “weapons” can also be regarded as “tools”. A knife is a tool, it beats clawing open packages with your fingernails. :stuck_out_tongue: Not to mention slicing your steak and vegetables. Even a gun is regarded as a tool in some parts of this country. Americans actually do have a right to be armed, i.e. carry weapons, written into our constitution. We do not, of course, have a right to use weapons on other people except in self-defense but around here (Indiana) the hunting season sees numbers of citizens walking down the road with high powered rifles on their shoulders. Perfectly legal as long as not concealed and used on deer and ducks instead of people, and not carried into the post office. Some stores do require weapons to be checked at the door. And stores that sell guns keep them under lock and key. Which is just common sense, like putting locks on your kitchen cabinet to keep children and the irresponsible out of trouble.

These days, seeing as we are at war of a sort, a lot more Americans are wandering about armed. I guess a lot of us have the crazy notion we’re capable of taking care of ourselves, especially since we don’t each have an armed bodyguard. Or perhaps you think we should cower helplessly in a corner hoping the “authorities” show up before we’re killed by the Bad Guys ™. :rolleyes:

Guess I just have trouble with the notion that merely touching or carrying a weapon is going to turn the average citizen into a homicidal maniac.

As for the whole scouting trip thing - scouts don’t wear their uniforms 24/7, and shouldn’t be required to. Back when I was doing a lot of backpack camping I would spend a couple weeks in the summer walking around the neighborhood in full gear to get used to the weight and balance. And yes, I carried all my gear, including such tools as knives and hatchets. :eek: Yes, down the street! :eek: In public! :eek: without my scout uniform! :eek:

Speak for yourself.

I feel safer when people around me are armed.

AquaPura worries;

Well, that can definitely put a different light on your friend’s problem. Some parents are much less than perfect. If he’s sure that telling them would be a bad idea, then don’t. He’s just a kid, for crying out loud.
But because he’s over 18 he doesn’t have to inform them or ask permission to fight this thing. But fight it he should. For practical reasons and for his own sense of well being. IMO, anyway.
Public defender, loans, or a collection among friends and co-workers are all possibilities.
Good luck to him.
Please, stick around and let us know how things work out.
Peace,
mangeorge

Thanks for the Welcome, but I don’t know Charlie or Lloyd.

I’m sure you’re delighted that you are allowed to make use of your state’s interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment. Just know that I’m not the only person in America whose AUTOMATIC response to seeing a person NOT in uniform - and wearing a weapon- is to A) Take down their license plate and call the local Field Office of the F.B.I. and inform them as to their whereabouts, and/or B) Call the local police if they are on foot, and inform them of their whereabouts.
You enjoy your right to carry a loaded gun, I enjoy my right to Freedom of Speech. See, we both get to enjoy our rights. God help you, you wind up in my town. The State Troopers around these parts pretty much have zero tolerance for hotshots and cowboys.

**( **Upon Previewing this post, it does occur to me that you may indeed be an employee of a law enforcement agency. Doesn’t matter to me. The call still gets made. I let the officers I TRUST deal with the cowboys. )

Cartooniverse

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Cartooniverse *
**

And since he has a license to carry a gun this will achieve what? Other than make you look like a kook to the local law enforcement.

Thanks mangeorge, for understanding the reason that he wants this kept quiet. We told him not to worry about the money for the fine, or the lawyer, we would foot the bill and just have him pay us back in small increments.
He is going to fight this, and we are trying to help him to do that. The night of this we took and photographed the marks and cuts on his wrists from the cuffs, as well as how he was dressed so if needed the attorney can use this in court.
It has been several days now and he is still shaken, I am worried about him and how he is holding up. We have told him we are all behind him and we will see this thing through, but he seems to depressed for it to matter.

One of my other friends (who was also there that night) is in the police acadamy right now, she is asking her professors (who are all cops, lawyers, or both) what was proper in that circumstance and what can be done. We got some good news today though,she was telling one of her instructors what happened and how, if appropriate, to lodge a complaint against the officer. He asked her what municipality it was, and it turns out that he is on the Fire and Police Commision for our municpality. He said he would look into it personally because he didn’t like how it sounded. :slight_smile:

So hopefully more good information will come to light.

Thanks again to everybody.
~Aqua

I think this is well outside GQ territory now. I’ll move it to GD.

bibliophage
moderator GQ