AquaPura, I share your pain. You’ve explained your position AGAIN and AGAIN…you’ve explained that your friend WASN’T lying AT ALL, and he was polite but this Cazzle person still insists that since your friend was arrested, he MUST HAVE been doing something wrong. I have all the respect in the world for police officers, but in every profession there are rotten apples that are total assholes. This cop was an asshole. He had no right to treat your friend like that, even if he was a cop. And Cazzle admits that she’s biased, but offers no apologies for the sweeping wrong assumptions she is making. Sheesh. I can’t stand people who cannot admit that they may have been mistaken about something. Cazzle just 'cause you know some dude named Dook that was a fruitcake with a knife/weapon, doesn’t mean everyone that looks weird and carries knives USES THEM as weapons, and even WANTS TO use them as weapons. I beg you, don’t let your assumptions about people based on your limited experiences cloud your judgment about people. That is the basis for racism, sexism, and all the other negative “isms” that are out there.
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If he’s truly innocent and wants to clear his record, then he has to hire a lawyer and go through the appeals process. However, realistically, fighting it is going to cost him some money that he might not have. In some states, his juvenile record is sealed after he turns 18 anyway. In that case, he may want to swallow his pride and let it stand.
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He can issue a complaint against the police officer without any cost. A lot of cities have citizen “watchdog” committees established to review police behavior.
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Why he doesn’t want to tell his parents? Surely they are already aware he carries big knives around and is a witch. If he’s a good kid, they’ll probably stand behind their son. Now if they don’t know that he has a half dozen 5" “camping” knives and practices witchcraft…well that could take a whole new thread to explore. But it would explain a lot.
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In theory your friend should be able to practice his faith openly. However, in practice this is not the case. We are a very tolerant people up to a certain point. And “witchcraft” is still one of those taboo areas. If your friend still wants to carry around large knives, wear dark clothing, and don symbols that people associate with Satan after this incident, well, let me just say that he needs to quit being so naive. He needs to learn to not relinquish his constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure so easily. He needs to understand that some men in America will kick his ass based on nothing but that pentagram. And he has to decide what is more important to him.
He is 18.
You probably don’t need me to tell you how silly it is to compare a person you don’t know to someone who seems to be somewhat insane. If you realized that you are biased, I’m sure you realize why you’re being irrational.
Why does it matter? The question isn’t “why couldn’t he leave the knives at home?”, it’s “why should he have to?” He wasn’t doing anything dangerous or illegal, so he shouldn’t have been harassed.
Well, tell me… if he was staying in a campground so nice and so civilized that he was able to keep his clothing fresh and clean, and take a shower whenever he wanted… then why did he need to carry large ugly knives on his person at all times, rather than keeping them in his pack? What would you use a knife for at these pristine campgrounds that is so urgent that the knife needs to be in your belt at all times, requires a blade that is three inches long?
You need a knife with a blade longer than three inches to open a package or slice an apple?
No it doesn’t, just as him being an Eagle Scout doesn’t mean that he’s never told a lie. I come in here, and I see your post, and I find it hard to believe that a cop would take the time to hassle your friend when he’s done nothing wrong. I make a statement, ask some questions, in the process I make you mad (I’m sorry), but I keep seeing inconsistancies in your story. Your friend is
a) Carrying knives because he’s just back from a camp
b) Carrying knives because he always does although he usually carries prettier knives
c) Carrying one of the knives in order to have it engraved. When you picked up your friend, he was
a) At home
b) Not at home, but in his driveway
c) Just arriving in his driveway and rushed straight to your car without dropping off anything from his trip.
Picture this. You’re a cop, a Christian who doesn’t know the difference between Wiccan and Buddism, and who associates witches with Halloween. You’re on duty, standing there, when you see two kids outside. One is a girl, one is a boy, obviously teen. The boy is dressed in what looks to you like all black clothing and is wearing a symbol of the occult that screams “Bad News” to you, not “Religious Freedom”. The boy unsheaths a knife, and opens a package with it. The girl looks up, sees you watching, says something to the boy and they both stand up to leave. Now, you have two choices - presume they’re not doing anything wrong, or stop them and ask questions. When you do, you ask the boy why he’s carrying a knife, and he says “Cause I’m a boyscout”. You look at the symbol around his neck, the all-dark clothing, and you don’t believe him. Why would you? You associate Scouting with little boys, Christian boys, not teens wearing strange and suspicious occult symbols and carrying knives. You ask him why he needs the knives, and he says they all have different uses when you’re camping. Now, you may be biased, but to your eyes it sure as hell don’t look like that boy is camping. So the kids says he’s just back from a camping trip - your cop is going to wonder all the same things I did, like why didn’t he leave the knives home, when did he find time to shower and get clean clothes if he’s camping, etc. In the end, your cop is going to weigh up his options and decide the only way to cover his butt is to charge the boy with something. He may not be confident with his decision, but if he’s afraid that your friend might be carrying knives for a more sinister purpose, he has to do something to protect himself.
Cops have a hard enough job as it is. When good people start acting like bad people and cops have to make judgement calls, it gets nasty. One the one hand, arrest an innocent person and they’ll scream for your head on a platter - on the other, give a crook the benefit of the doubt, and have people screaming for your head on a platter when they find out you saw him and didn’t stop him. It’s a fine line. I feel sorry for the cop in this case.
Number one he was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon… not lying to the police. It is irrevelant that he may have lied to the police, i don’t even think he did. AquaPura just left out some details to save space. In america people are inocent until proven guilty, he is not guilty of CCW, the large knives were not concieled. the officer had no reason to give him that fine.
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Picture this. You’re a cop, a Christian who doesn’t know the difference between Wiccan and Buddism, and who associates witches with Halloween.
since when does a pentacle have anything to do with buddism?
Cazzle, before you make judgements about what boy scouts are like in this country, or how they should behave may i suggest you investigate american boy scouts. They have the right to dress how ever they like.
Just because it was a prestine camp ground does not mean that a knife cannot surve a valuable purpose as a tool, you still may need to cut things at camp.
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In the end, your cop is going to weigh up his options and decide the only way to cover his butt is to charge the boy with something. He may not be confident with his decision, but if he’s afraid that your friend might be carrying knives for a more sinister purpose, he has to do something to protect himself.
That does not give him the right to charge him with a crime he did not commit, OR to break laws himself, and not follow arrest procidure.
AquaPura posted this in order to seek legal advice, it seems she has gotten everything but, people don’t need to pick apart her story to give legal advice, but for some reason people are so that they may argue about political issues that have little place in this story
This is just my thoughts on the subject i’m sorry if i offended anyone 
A frustrated remark from AguaPura;
Still bonking, kiddo? I sure hope not.
I’m not sure how this degenerated into a (gun control?) debate, but just ignore the arguements and evaluate the advice. Most of it is well thought out.
So, how’s it going with your friend? Anything yet?
Please don’t leave us hanging. (No pun 
)
Peace,
mangeorge
Dearie, if they were in his pack, they really wouldn’t be useful as a tool when you are cutting twine for lashing or whittling, or slicing your potatoes for dinner now would it? If you are in the process of lashing down your tarp with a nice hunky ball o’ twine are you going to be able to hold the tension on the twine so you are keeping the tarp aloft whilest going BACK to your pack to root around for your knife so you can cut it and tie it off? Would you be able to do that? Let me know mmmm’kay?
See above, and seriously… try reading the post for once, and if you have trouble understanding a concept see if you can get some one to explain it for you. If you are cutting sisal twine and big sticks with a weeny 'ittle pocket knife you are going to have a seriously dull and dangerous knife before long.
Most of the time, no, I don’t need a really big knife for either of those tasks. But that isn’t the question, it isn’t ILLEGAL for me to carry a knife like that. It isn’t to scare people, it is a nice sturdy TOOL, and i admire the craftsmanship that went into it. I seriously doubt I would be carrying a box cutter, a small pocket knife, and a paring knife where ever I went. Why wouldn’t I carry a knife that would do those jobs and more? Furthermore, why shouldn’t I?
I won’t specifcally address the rest of your post as it is frought with misinformation, but I suggest you go back and READ the OP as well as my update posts. You will see that we were NOT outside, there were OTHER people with us, WE didn’t fly outta there, we walked calmly and sedately, I am NOT a girl, I am a woman, he is an ADULT, not some punky kid out looking for a bad time. Try to look beyond your narrow prejduces for once. Look with eyes that are unclouded and perhaps you will see the truth.
And mangeorge? Thanks for the thoughts, I was Bonking my head after reading cazzle’s post, I think I am STILL bonking right now… nothing is happening yet. Next stop is with the public defenders office.
Also, PunditLisa, see my posts above to see why he would rather his parent’s didn’t know. In short, they would be more worried about the family name rather than right or wrong…
~Aqua
Aqua, just a bit of free advice. cazzle is in Australia where they have much more restrictive laws against carrying and even owning devices that could be dangerous weapons. These people are used to not being allowed to carry weapons, so they may not see why we Americans are so jealously protective of our right to.
Don’t get so frustrated. cazzle has already admitted she’s not going to change her views and you’re not here for a debate so stop trying.
To add to the OP, this cop probably equated your friend with the likes of those kids that shot up Columbine. Don’t be so hard on him and assume he’s just being an ass. From his pov , he sees a kid dressed in black, carry weapons, wearing a weird symbol and he doesn’t want to see another Columbine. While your friend may not have broken the law, the cop is not a lawyer and your friend came close enough to the line that the cop decided he could not make a determination and he would err on the safe side (for him) and let others argue the fine points.
I believe in the right to carry but I also think 3 knives is excessive when 1 would suffice. Even though it’s not illegal, appearances count for a lot and if your friend wants to appear to be excessively armed, he needs to expect that some will treat him a little less casually.
Tomorrow is the day he is scheduled to be in court. We aren’t sure if this is just the plea, or if he will have his case decided here. He will also speak to the city attorney tomorrow. Wish him luck, he is really been down since the incident, and is frantic about getting this resolved. I hope, for his sake, that this is done tomrrow. Then he can start getting on with his life.
Good luck, friend of AquaPura.
You win, whatever the outcome.
Peace,
mangeorge
Yesterday was the hearing, it was a municpal court proceeding, so there were many offenders on the docket. Most of them were real winners, dressed innappropriately in ripped up dirty jeans, loud in the courtroom, disrespectuful to the judge, sounding like complete and utter idiots to not only the judge, but the City Attorney. When his name was finally called I think he almost threw up right there. He pled not guilty, and we all filed in with him to speak to the City Attorney. He told his story, and the CA reviewed the evidence. After doing so he verbally browbeat my friend about appearances, and perceptions. My friend said he could understand the officers postion on how he might have looked like he was upto no good. The CA was pleased that he understood that he might have looked like a hooligan out to rampage with three knives. He said while it looked like he (my friend) was telling the truth and wasn’t a bad guy, he saw the officers postion. Therefore, he would be willing to drop the charges if my friend did ten hours of community service, and kept out of trouble until March. Basically, it wasn’t a penalty for doing a crime, but for being stupid enough to have three kknives on him that late at night in a public area. We can all deal with a fine for being stupid. So he accepted the conditions, and was found not guilty by the court judge. I kept one eyeball on the officer that had arrested him (he was the officer of the court at the time) while the judge read the verdict, when the words “The court finds you not guilty” came out of the judges mouth I think the cop just about passed a kidney stone.
So, it was a good ending to a long and traumatic month period. I’m happy, my friend is happy, we are all happy. A complaint will probally be filed with the police department for the cops excessive use of force during the arrest, but my friend is so happy that his record will now be back to it’s squeaky clean condition that all thoughts of a civil case are gone right out his head. So in the end, the truth won out.
So all in all, the math went like this:
Being arrested for Concealed Carry of a Weapon = $410.00
Court costs to fight the charges = $23.00
Seeing the expression on the face of the arresting officer as the charges are dropped and the “Not Guilty” verdict is read? *** Priceless… ***
That’s quite interesting. I take it your friend is on his honor to stay out of trouble until March, and to perform the community service?
In my experience, which is rather extensive, in circumstances like this, the judge will agree to continue without a finding for a certain period (say, until March) and then dismiss the charge if the conditions were met.
By entering a verdict of not guilty - unless there were multiple charges, and you didn’t share the disposition of the others - the court has essentially divested itself of any further jurisdiction over him. In fact, with a not-guilty verdict, even if he were to get in trouble tomorrow, not only could the orignal concealed-carry charge not be resurrected, it couldn’t even be mentioned at a trial on whatever new charge came up. Nor could it be considered at sentencing. It simply cannot exist as far as future courts are concerned.
If this happened in Virginia, he’d also likely be eligible to have his arrest record expunged.
So I guess I’m wondering if you maybe left out a detail or two. From where I stand, the court has no way of enforcing either condition you mention.
- Rick