Ask the Black Guy

[system]

Dear Mr. Black Guy,

I just have to ask this.
If no other reason than to give you a good laugh.

(As a side note I do not believe in race. Define the attributes of a race and I will provide you with an example of someone you say is a member of that race yet does not fit your defined attributes.)

Here goes.
Remember I’m just relaying, verbatim

A cousin-in-law in Dyersburg, Tennessee, in hushed confidence, informed me that, “Mosquitoes don’t bite niggers. Something about their smell.”

So? Ever bitten by a mosquitoe?

---

If it’s any consolation, I was once riding in a car, because of my job, with someone in Nashville, Tennessee, who upon seeing a black man walking across the the street said, “Wish they’d go back where they came from,”
I said, (and I still can’t believe my gumtion as a younger Southerner) said, "If we went back to Europe we could give this country back to the Indians.

[system]

Dear Mr Black Man,

I also have to ask:

Many a year ago I was working late.
Struck up a conversation with the cleaning lady.
I mentioned ‘town’ where I graduated from high school.

The cleaning lady said, “My grandmother was a slave freed in ‘town’.”
She talked a little of her grandmother.

Me,
being so young and stupid that it still brings tears to my eyes,
did not probe her every emotion and recollection.

Question:
(And I oh so often wonder this)
What did she learn on the knee of her grandmother?

[Badtz_Maru]

Hmm, is there a white version?

1. (Gender) Being male

Got that.

2. (Ethnic Pride) Downplaying / denying one’s ethnic heritage.

Well, I don’t really have an ethnic heritage I identify with - I’m half Irish, half mutt, and I don’t celebrate St. Patricks day and, from what I’ve seen, probably would hate Ireland.

3. (Romantic Interests) Dating white women, possibly precluding even the possibility of dating or marrying black women. (Big Tom sign.) You wrinkle your nose subconsciously whenever you encounter black women whose names begin with “La” “Sha” or “Ta” or end in “-iesha” or “-wana.” (This should count as two.)

Well, most of the women I have dated were white, but not all of them, and if I had to choose a woman by appearance alone (in this hypothetical situation there are many women with identical personalities of different races interested in me) I’d probably go with a Latina, Middle-Eastern, or Asian girl. And I definitely wrinkle my nose (not always subconsciously) at women with those trendy white names like ‘Ryleigh’, ‘Taylor’, and ‘Caitlin’.

4. (Ethnic Features) Regularly engage in cosmetic alterations that mute, transform or de-emphasize your racial identity. (I.E. lipshairskintonenosebutt)

Well, a ‘No’ on this one, but everything I can think of in this category (perms, hair-dying, contact lenses, collagen injections) is a primarily female thing.

5. (Personal Indentification) Feeling shame in the behavior of other white people who behave in a low-class manner – by your standards – as if it had a direct reflection on you, when it DON’T.*

Yeah, I feel something akin to shame when I see white-trash people on Springer, or hear about a bunch of rednecks dragging some poor guy to death, but I then remind myself that EVERY race has it’s idiots.

6. (Cultural ties) Feel disdain for historically white institutions, organizations and traditions, both cultural and language-based. You maintain virtually no ties to any of them. You may find yourself wondering why they’re still around.

A big yes here.

7. (Leadership ties) Feel disdain and critical attitute towards the leadership produced from the places mentioned in #6. You maintain virtually no ties to any current “white” leadership. You may find yourself wondering why they’re still around.

Another big yes.

8. (Cultural identification) Enthusiastically embrace another (usually Eurocentric) culture/lifestyles over what you were likely raised in the white communities of your time/place. Your taste in clothing, food, music, hairstyles, hobbies, humor and standard of beauty all derive from this.

In some ways. Lots of Asian stuff decorating my apartment, my favorite cuisines are from non-white countries. My musical tastes are pretty varied, but I do enjoy a lot of music that is part of typically white genres, like heavy metal, but I’m also a big fan of the blues and Middle-Eastern music.

9. (Cultural dissemination) Raising your kids to be juuuuuust. liiiiiike. yooooouuuu. And you give/plan to give them names like “Tiffany Amber Yourlastname” and “Christopher Maximillian Yourlastname.” If your son changed his name to “Jamal” you’d have conniptions.

I definitely plan on raising my kids to be a lot like me (though smarter), but the names we have discussed for our children are pretty white - George Reiner, Lily Victoria…I want to name one Lucifer but my wife won’t go for that.

10. (The Rhythm Question) The black recording artist you identify with most is Sammy Davis, Jr., Charlie Pride or, possibly, Kevin Eubanks. You equate all hip-hop music as essentially violent, sexual, or unlistenable. You don’t see any difference between Public Enemy, Wu-Tang Clan, Bone-Thugz-and-Harmony and NWA. The last dance you mastered was the Cabbage Patch. You don’t know if ODB is a person or a group. You have no clue who Surge Knight is, but you hope his black ass is locked up. You don’t know what the hell Baduism is, but your daughter better not have it.

Well, I can’t dance for shit so I guess I’m pretty stereotypically white that way. On the other hand, I hate most country music but enjoy quite a bit of rap, and one of my favorite musicians of all time was black (Jimi Hendrix).

I score around a 6 or 7 if you turn things around - am I the white equivelant of an Uncle Tom?

[Askia]

Blacks being mosquito-repellant is a myth. However, just as some people are born with a natural immunity to poison ivy and don’t experience a rash when exposed to its juice, some people don’t experience the immediate allergic / bump / swelling from mosquito bites, either. Even multiple ones.

My late grandfather born with a natural immunity to mosquito bites and poison ivy. I remember going fishing with him out in Santee and watching in morbid 8 year-old fascination as mosquitos would sink into his skin, feast, and fly away – and he never showed any notice. Nor do I ever remember him having mosquito bumps or scratching himself. My poor grandmother, however, is as ‘sweet-blooded’ as they come, and can’t step outside without getting bit by mosquitoes. I doubt odor itself had anything to do with it.

Now, here’s a wag. My grandfather was very dark-skinned. My grandmother, who’s still very much alive, is a classic redbone. Does the amount of melanin in the skin have anything to do with mosquito attraction? I will add from personal experience that if you have me outdoors in the height of a buggy summer evening in shorts and a T-shirt I’ll be bitten by mosquitoes, but if you put me around a bunch of other folks, I’ll be mostly left alone.

[Askia]

I can’t believe I’m still catching flak for that test.

I’d be shocked if you scored a “Supernigga”.

[Gyrate]

This just in, from The Chronicle of Higher Education:

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT this morning let stand an appeals-court ruling that found diversity to be an adequate justification for public colleges to consider race in admissions.

The Supreme Court’s order, in a case that challenged the admissions policies of the University of Washington’s law school, was something of a victory for supporters of affirmative action. Those advocates, including most college officials, feared that the court might use the case to review its landmark 1978 ruling, Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, on which most colleges’ affirmative-action programs are based.

Any thoughts on whether this is a good or bad thing?

[Gyrate]

*Originally posted by ruadh *

*Originally posted by jr8 *
Are you sure it wasn’t anti-American prejudice? Some Brits can get pretty snotty to American tourists.

The stories I was told involved being shouted racial abuse by people who passed them by in the streets, and wouldn’t even have heard their American accents.

Well that’s pretty unambiguous.

Also, as a (white) American myself, not once in the cumulative 2 years I’ve lived in Britain and Ireland have I encountered anything of the sort. The fact that several of my (nonwhite) American friends have strongly suggests to me there’s something beyond anti-Americanism involved.

I’ve been in the UK for five years, and I have heard anti-American comments shouted at tourists, and considerably more out of earshot of other Americans, by those who thought I was Canadian at the time. Hence my original question.

Certainly I would never attempt to claim that there ain’t no racism in the UK or Europe.

[Stuffy]

I’ve been bitten by mosquitos many times but like Askia, in a crowd I tend to be left alone. Never really gave it much thought till now though. I’m also wondering if it’s melanin, my sister who’s lighter than me looks spotted during mosquito season, they seem to love her.

[Stuffy]

*Originally posted by jr8 *
**This just in, from The Chronicle of Higher Education:

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT this morning let stand an appeals-court ruling that found diversity to be an adequate justification for public colleges to consider race in admissions.

The Supreme Court’s order, in a case that challenged the admissions policies of the University of Washington’s law school, was something of a victory for supporters of affirmative action. Those advocates, including most college officials, feared that the court might use the case to review its landmark 1978 ruling, Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, on which most colleges’ affirmative-action programs are based.

Any thoughts on whether this is a good or bad thing? **

Well after reviewing it it looks like it really has a very limited scope. Washington state no longer allows the usage of race as a factor in admissions or contracting much like California’s porp 209. It’s primary effects here are limited to:
[ul]
[li]Allowing race to be used as a criterion for admission still without a clear standard.[/li][li]Takes away the plaintiffs money train[/li][li]Hi Opal! (I always wanted to do that :D)[/li][li]Ensures that this will again be revisited by the Supremes.[/li][/ul]

I think I already mentioned what I think of AA as a whole.

[Askia]

From The Chronicle of Higher Education.

For many years, colleges relied on a 1978 Supreme Court ruling to justify their affirmative-action programs. That ruling, in the case of Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, said that colleges could use race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions decisions but could not designate set numbers of spaces for members of specific ethnic and racial groups. The ruling was hailed by colleges as critical to remedying the effects of past discrimination and to diversifying their campuses.

From The University of Washington’s Law School.

The Law School had for many years sought to achieve diversity in the student body by considering racial minority status as a positive factor in admission decisions. That policy was challenged in a suit filed by applicants who were not offered admission to the Law School. The claim asserted by the plaintiffs was that any consideration of race or ethnicity constitutes a form of impermissible reverse discrimination. The School’s admission policy had been devised to meet the standards of the Supreme Court decision in the Bakke case. We interpreted that case to mean that race could be considered along with other factors in order to achieve a diverse student body designed to enrich the educational experience of all students. The case brought against the Law School is still pending and will be decided in due course. [WELL, NOT ANY MORE. UW WON.] After the commencement of the suit challenging the Law School’s admission policy, the voters of the State of Washington passed Initiative 200, which provides that “the state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of … public education …”

Omitted from that section of Initiative 200 are the terms “public contracting” and “public employment.” Which, if my reading of the statute is correct, means that the people of Washington feel that the race of an applicant is immaterial even as an optional consideration for state agencies that provide employment, contracting opportunities and education in that state, even for those agancies that seek diversity. Given affirmative action’s steady erosion in public support/as public policy since 1978, is pretty much to be expected.

But the Supreme Court has apparently held that the way the Washington Law School exercised its admissions standards did not violate Bakke. Apparently, they may have freely accepted some candidates as desirable because of their race, but they didn’t maintain a quota.

As national rulings supercede local ones, this isn’t over. It may yet be visited by the Supreme Court, as stuffinb says, but my gut feeling is that even so, Bakke might be amended by the Supreme Court but it won’t be struck down for a long time yet, primarily to ensure that private institutions would still have legal recourse to exercise some discretion in accepting otherwise exceptional candidates based on race, ethnicity and national origin, within the guidelines of the law. (i.e., no quotas.)

My biggest problem with AA is not with the charges of “reverse discrimination” (Aside from maybe the Bakke case. But man, ANY choice discriminates against those not chosen! Yeesh.) but with the way some AA programs are run. Based on my own experiences, sometimes selected minority applicants are accepted, promoted and evaluated by a separate and lesser standard, which is basically tokenism, and that’s wrong.

stuffinb, I strongly argue against the ‘gravy train’ characterization. Acceptance to an educational program is one thing, but being able to pay for it is quite another. A lot of these AA offer financial assistance, true. But a whole lot of them don’t.

[Stuffy]

Askia Everything I know about AA (sans contracting) is second hand or from materials I’ve read. So I don’t know if there are financial aid incentives or not. My gravy train comment, was an oblique reference to the reverse discrimination charge levelled by some, and what I’d assumed was the charge by the plaintives, but then you knew that. I’ll happily withdraw it as I didn’t read a full background on the case.

[Weird_AL_Einstein]

…makes me feel like a dullard next to some of the people posting here o well.

Ok, taking the topic literally:

1 Heard any Chris Rock routines? If so, whaddaya think?

2 Racial profiling-strawman created by Al Sharpton, or real problem?

3 Do black kids who do well in school really get accused of “acting white”?

4 Was Bill Clinton really the “first black president”?

5 Have you seen the movie “The Animal”? I heard it has a funny running gag about affirmative action.

6 I was going to ask about interracial dating, but that’s already been chewed over pretty thoroughly, so instead I will just use this space to relate that I once had a pathetic puppy dog crush on a black girl. She was so far out of my league…it was embarrasing.

7 Who’s the Man?

[Askia]

1. I can quote many of Rock’s routines from memory. Chris’ views mirror many of my own on a lot of topics. I think he’s one the funniest and the most observatant comedians out there now. That said, Chris is no Richard Pryor – Pryor had a comedic genius few can touch – but I’m damn glad we got Rock.

2. Rev. Al Sharpton’s views on anything are things I’d take with a huge slab of skepticism. Sharpton is the New York version of the late Rev. Hosiah Williams of Atlanta, anyway.

3. (Sigh.) Oh, yes. It happened to me as early as 4th grade and got worse in junior high and high school. By high school it had gotten so bad I begged my Mom to take me out of the mostly-white gifted program I’d been in since 2nd grade. I deliberately chose to go to an Historically Black College, primarily to get resocialized more into the African-American mainstream. And to be in a school with a 3 to 1 female/male ratio.

4. No. But Bill is an Honorary Negro.

5. “The Animal”… Rob Schneider movies… “funny”. I’m sorry. I’m just not making the connection, here.

6. You gotta pursue the impossible dream. I, myself, have an embarrassing love jones going for Anne Robinson of The Weakest Link.

7. Ooner Da Man. I mentioned this on page 2.

[Stuffy]

*Originally posted by Weird_AL_Einstein *
…makes me feel like a dullard next to some of the people posting here o well.

Ok, taking the topic literally:

1 Heard any Chris Rock routines? If so, whaddaya think?

I’m a early to bed kinda guy so i don’t see him often. I did see a show of his with Bernie Mack that I thought was funny. I also saw one of his early routines I thought was a stitch.

2 Racial profiling-strawman created by Al Sharpton, or real problem?

There’s to much evidence that it exist. Try running New Jersey and Racial Profiling throuh a google search, and you’ll see what I mean. Also check out the ACLU. They’ve got tons of studies. Oh, and like Askia said take anything Sharpton says with a healthy dose of skepticism.

3 Do black kids who do well in school really get accused of “acting white”?

My nickname in middle school was practically “Oreo”. My Mom said be proud.

4 Was Bill Clinton really the “first black president”?

I’ve heard this bandied about. Never knew where it came from nor the reason for the label. Anybody?

5 Have you seen the movie “The Animal”? I heard it has a funny running gag about affirmative action.

I read about the gag at Slate. Haven’t seen the movie though and I dougt I will until, it hits cable, and I’m really bored, and I have nothing to read, and I can’t find the remote and…

6 I was going to ask about interracial dating, but that’s already been chewed over pretty thoroughly, so instead I will just use this space to relate that I once had a pathetic puppy dog crush on a black girl. She was so far out of my league…it was embarrasing.

Hey Askia I thought it was just me! Always had a thing for redheads and smarts to boot sigh

7 Who’s the Man?

Ok I confess it’s me

[Weird_AL_Einstein]

*Originally posted by Askia K. Hale *
**Chris is no Richard Pryor – Pryor had a comedic genius few can touch – but I’m damn glad we got Rock.

**

I’ve heard people talk about Richard Pryor but I’ve never listened to one of his routines. I’ll have to check him out.

*Originally posted by Askia K. Hale *
**

3. (Sigh.) Oh, yes. It happened to me as early as 4th grade **

So…ummm…any idea what can be done about it?

*Originally posted by Askia K. Hale *
**
5. “The Animal”… Rob Schneider movies… “funny”. I’m sorry. I’m just not making the connection, here.

**

I don’t disagree. I had only thought about going to see it because of that one gag…it seems to be something new under the sun, rare in films these days.

Here is a quote from the article about it in Slate magazine Stuffinb referred to in his post:

**

The Animal does, however, have an unexpected subplot in which Marvin’s African-American friend (Guy Torry) complains bitterly about reverse-discrimination. He’s incensed at the way white people, out of liberal guilt, routinely ignore his flagrant misdemeanors for fear of offending him—which he demonstrates by provoking them in various ways and watching them pass, stone-faced.

**

*Originally posted by Askia K. Hale *
**6. You gotta pursue the impossible dream. I, myself, have an embarrassing love jones going for Anne Robinson of The Weakest Link.

**

Being told you’re the weakest link on a game show is embarassing enough. Being told that by a woman you’re romantically involved with…yeeek.

*Originally posted by stuffinb *
**

4 Was Bill Clinton really the “first black president”?

I’ve heard this bandied about. Never knew where it came from nor the reason for the label. Anybody?

**

I believe it was the poet Maya Angelou. Or was in MSNBC columnist Jill Nelson?

[mangeorge]

It was ol’ Bill hisself;
http://www.latestsedition.com/page1027.html
Kinda funny, actually. Gotta love the guy.
Here’s a question;
Sometimes (pretty often, actually), when I walk past a black man, especially young and in a group, he’ll “hock up a loogie” and spit. On the ground. Does this mean something? Should I take it personally and kick the guy’s butt?
I might add that the deplorable act is often accompanied by “The Look”.
I love this thread. Thanks, stuffinb
Peace,
mangeorge

[Askia]

Mangeorge: if you pass a group of young black men on the street, and just one of them spits on the ground and glares at you, and you have to ask whether he’s trying to start something because there’s still room for doubt – embrace the ambiguity. If the guy didn’t talk trash and make it PLAIN, he’s probably 1) honestly just clearing his throat or 2) he’s half-heartedly fucking with you while talking with his boys about the upcoming Lakers/Phillys matchup in the NBA Finals.

Remember: He’s with his friends. They’ve got his back. Statistically, at least one of them has been to jail before and ain’t afraid to go back after giving a righteous ass-kicking. Let. It. Go.

stuffinb: I’ve always attributed my attraction to redheads as either a serious henna addiction or me 1/16th Irish blood talking.

With respect to those posters who think it was poet Maya Angelou, reporter Jill Nelson, or Bill himself who called Clinton, “The First Black President,” I’m reasonably sure the idea can trace its popularity to the comedy routines of Cedric The Entertainer during the original Kings Of Comedy Tour on the Chittlin’ Circuit in 1998-9. When Spike Lee filmed a few concerts and made them into a docu-movie, it got even more currency, particularly from the TV and movie trailers that showed Cedric deadpanning, “I mean, Clinton… he’s close.”

[Stuffy]

mangeorge Thaks i’m enjoying it too.

Askis My paternal grandmother was Irish, I’m also part blackfoot (my maternal great grandmother).

[tracer]

The Onion once had this Editorial article about this guy who had this amazing “blackdar” – he could tell if somebody was black just by looking at him or her!

Unfortunately, I can’t find that Editorial anywhere in The Onion’s on-line archives. Dog gone it.

[mangeorge]

Hey thanks, Askia K. Hale. I was just kidding about the butt-kicking part. I’m way too old (56) and out of shape to be challenging the youngsters. Besides, I’m not nearly that easy to offend. I just nod and say “S’up?”.
Almost always get’s a civil response.I used to mildly fuck with old dudes when I was a young buck myself. It’s part of the “becomong a man” thing, I guess.
Peace,
mangeorge