Test Post
Kimstu wrote:
Well, duh. Who’d want him? (Kidding! :p)
Shadenwawa wrote:
We have the same goal, but I think you’re missing a step along the way. We cannot jump from gay/straight directly to no one cares without first raising awareness, and that’s done by people coming out as gay, lesbian, bisexual and/or transgendered. There’s the old idea that if every queer person turned lavender for a day, homophobia would disappear, as everyone would see that queers are everywhere - they are their brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins, co-workers, fast food workers, janitors, CEO’s, clergy, etc. How can you hate the people you love most? Because being queer is the invisible minority, visibility is the only way to overcome prejudice. And when every queer person is free to say who they are, only then will your, and my, perfect world exist.
Eureka wrote:
From planetout.com:
Still sounds like a peaceful protest, annoying or not. I feel for Bishop Solomon who is obviously a man of conscience.
Eureka also wrote:
OK, you said it, so let’s have it - what are your feelings on the subject?
Esprix
[Moderator Note: I edited down the article out of copyright concerns. Please post a link to the article and minor excerpts, rather than the full text.–Gaudere]
goboy wrote:
cough file a deed of joint tenancy cough
The question is, why should we have to? More legal expense and bother straight folks don’t have to deal with.
Actually, many married straight couples do file deeds of joint tenancy on their real estate. That way, if one of them dies, the other person takes sole ownership immediately and the property in question is kept out of Probate.
Joint ownership for an unmarried couple is even more useful, though, in that if a married person dies and leaves all his property to his spouse, there is no estate tax. If a member of an unmarried couple dies and leaves all his property to his partner, however, the estate tax does apply. (Note that everyone get a unified lifetime gift/estate tax credit equal to the gift/estate tax on $675,000, though, so estate taxes are only an issue if your estate is worth more than $675,000 or you made any gifts larger than $10,000 per year to any one person.)
Yes, you are right. The lavender example is a good one. I guess its all in the delivery: if Ricky Martin came out and said “Hey, folks, I’m gay”, thats one thing. But I guess what I’m objecting to is the tendency for straight people to harp on this particular facet of someone’s personality, and for the gay person to come out reluctantly based on the straight community’s prying. So in Ricky’s case, I’d say that I agree he should come out, just not to Barbara Walters when that’s what she wants for ratings, since she is betting that people will be “shocked.” I definitely do see what you mean in general, though.
-S
Speaking as a heterosexual male who is separated and anticipating a divorce this summer, have you considered the drawbacks to marrige as well as the benefits?
Most of the concerns I’ve heard that gay/lesbian couples have put forth about not being able to get married can be addressed through such things as joint tenancies, contractual agreements, durable powers of attorney.
So I guess my question is, has anyone considered the disadvantages of gay/lesbian divorce in addition to the benefits of gay/lesbian marriage? Or am I putting the cart before the horse?
Two questions:
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(For the Gay Guy): When us nice, straight guys have to deal with another straight guy who uses women and then dumps them we say “Hey, man, you’re giving us nice guys a bad name!”. So, what about you nice gay guys? Does the same thing come up? Are there gay guys who use guys and dump them? Gay Gals are invited to answer as well.
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(for any Gay Gals): Most porno (at least, the kind you can find in public newsstands & book stores) is geared toward white hetero guys (with at least one mag per fetish or favorite body part or age group). Do Lesbians buy these mags? I mean, are there Lesbians who are really into body parts like guys?
Just axing…
OK so it was more than two questions…
Interesting, the whole UMC General Conference was obviously a lot more complicated than I had realized. (Actually, that isn’t surprising, since all I knew I’d gotten from the radio or the newspaper and from conversations that occured prior to General Conference and I wasn’t curious enough to do more research.)
But, Esprix asked about my feelings. Basically, I believe that homosexual activity is morally wrong “because God said so” (in the Bible, and through the votes at General Conference, and through the sermon given by Pastor Y. two weeks before Easter (which was largely based on verses from Colossians(sp?) which did not obviously relate to homosexuality. (Even though Pastor Y. fell into the common trap of looking for further proof that homosexuality is wrong and came up with “because AIDS is a terrible way to die”.) ). But, I say I have mixed feelings because I’m concerned that homosexuality not be singled out as the unforgivable sin. (As in, it’s ok for the person to earn money from bourbon sales or people betting on horse races or growing tobacco, or to end up divorced but it is NEVER ok to be gay.)I also think that figuring out how to hate the sin but love the sinner is difficult, since I think the temptation is to condemn the sin too vigorously or not enough. (I don’t think it is appropriate for the church to completly ignore people who are gay, but how do you support the individual without suggesting it’s ok to be gay?) I understand the appeal of the “just the rights heterosexuals take for granted” (that goboy (? I hope) posted) it is just that if homosexual activity is wrong, and I believe it is, than I don’t want to be a part of promoting something I believe to be wrong just to be “fair”. I guess it comes down to, I believe homosexual activity to be wrong and I’m uncomfortable with either condemning all homosexuals as if homosexuality was the unforgivable sin or with pretending that I don’t think homosexuality is a big deal. I hate comparisons to other civil rights movements, because I think there is something inherently different between being homosexual and being “not exactly blue-eyed blond” (as my mother described a certain light-skinned black man at our church) or being female.
I hope that helps you to see where I’m coming from. If not, I’m not sure that I’m sure enough where I’m coming from to explain things better.
There certainly are; being a creep is not limited to one particular sexual orientation. However, I regard this as a point in favour of one night stands, if you please, on the grounds that you don’t have to trick someone into a sham relationship in order to get laid.
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Speaking as a heterosexual male who is separated and anticipating a divorce this summer, have you considered the drawbacks to marrige as well as the benefits?
**
Yeah I have thought of it. Things now aren’t that different for “divorces”, gay or heterosexual. Marriage brings on automatic legal privilieges nd responsibilities. Just because those legal responsibilities are automatic for a heterosexual coupple doesn’t mean that gay couples can’t get them. They can, it just takes more effort and expense. There are enough horror stories out there that there is a trend amongst gay couples to make their relationship legal binding. They do thise through wills, power of attorney, etc. Some may even go so far as to adopt their partner. So if a gay couple splits, they have just as many legal hoops to jump through before they can complete their break up.
Personally, I think the legal protections of a civil marriage far outway the potential drudgery of a break up. I’d rather have the marriage and take my chances just like everyone else. I’d also rather have certain legal responsibilities automatically conferred rather than having to go through the hassle of hiring a lawyer and maintaining a file cabinet of legal papers.
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2. (for any Gay Gals): Most porno (at least, the kind you can find in public newsstands & book stores) is geared toward white hetero guys (with at least one mag per fetish or favorite body part or age group). Do Lesbians buy these mags? I mean, are there Lesbians who are really into body parts like guys?
**
Oooh, a question directed at us lezzies. Well, I can only speak from myself. Neuro-trash grrrl might have a totally opposite opinion.
None of my friends subscribe to Playboy, etc. and never get guy pornos. I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen, just not in my limited experience. Like you say, these mags and films are geared towards hetero guys. They will draw on the typical male desires like big boobs, lots of makeup, and doing it with high heels on.
Women typically are not a visually oriented as men. They tend to concentrate less concrete things like emotions, etc. I’m a pretty typical woman and don’t find pornos all that thrilling. Not that I don’t like looking at the femal form, because I do…a lot. I just don’t go in for the heavily made up, poofy haired, surgically altered bodies that are in porn mags.
Or that I don’t like to watch two women having sex, because I do…a lot. I just like to have a storyline to go around it. So I tend to stick with Hollywood fare like Bound or If These Walls Could Talk 2 (preachy, but had great sex scenes 
) Not that anything Hollywood has produced is all that great, but I take what I can get.
There are pornos that are aimed at lesbian audiences. However, I live in a the bible belt with nary a trendy feminist shop in sight, so I haven’t had a chance to try them out yet.
Eureka, the left parentheses “(” in your post were not all balance with right parentheses “)”. My parser blew a head gasket.
Regarding Trumpy’s question about gay men behaving badly, I would say, based on my own recent sampling of gay men in the Washington, DC area, that gay men tend to be shallow and sex-obsessed.
Online, gay men always describe themselves by physical features, often in urological detail. They rarely include any deeper qualities in their online profiles, like ‘sense of humor’ or’good dancer.’
They also seem to look for others who fit a narrow list of qualifications, such as age, weight, race, and that as long as you’re physically pleasing, they don’t care to know you as a person. I’m 38, athletic, and good-looking, so I have guys come on to me regularly. But if I try to engage them in conversation, they lose interest when it becomes clear that I won’t have sex with them. Sex is easy to get, but I want more, like finding a nice gay man to date.
Sorry, tracer, I was half asleep before I’d finished typing, deleting part of it, and trying again. My college roommate has complained that I overuse parentheses to the point of illogic.And that was on a day when the number of left and right parentheses was equal. But I was too tired to count and make sure they balanced. And too tired to wait patiently on the assumption that I had in fact managed to post. For your sake, I have now removed all parentheses from this post. Though, I’m not sure that will increase the clarity of the post.
Whilst this has been obliquely touched upon, I don’t think our luminaries have dealt with it enough.
How do you view the practice of “outing”? When is it justifiable?
I think Esprix opined that the gay who decline to say they are gay are cowards. To what extent is there a responsibility to come out in public?
IMHO, it is okay to feel disappointed in those who fail to out themselves, but “outing” should be reserved for those who are hypocrites: those who are gay, but attack gays or give succour (ooh er) to those who do.
Thoughts?
picmr
[QUOTE]
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tracer asked:
Have there been any studies done of the average testosterone levels of gay men vs. straight men?
I recently heard of a study that gay men have an over abundance of testosterone. The study goes on to say that finger length is one physical indicator of sexual orientation. (Apparently, the amount of testosterone dictates genital size and finger length).
Your middle finger (the flippin’ one) and the ring finger are the targets of the study. If your ring finger is as long as your middle finger (or close to it) then you have an abnormal amount of testosterone, and more likely to be homosexual.
Accurate or not…thats what I got out of the study.
a. Male homosexuals have very low testosterone levels. This would imply very low sex drive, and that men would be more likely to become homosexual as they got older. Lacks face validity. And, no supporting empirical evidence.
I agree.
Even the notion that someone could BECOME gay is ridiculous.
If that statement were true, then straight people could BECOME gay at will.
Heya Esprix,
I heard in casual talk yesterday that roughly 10 percent of the US population is gay. Is that an accurate figure?
Goboy, as someone who does this, I would argue that there’s a difference between honestly looking for sex, and looking for sex by pretending you’re looking for love. Sex is a perfectly good thing to be looking for; rather than putting down the guys who post their “urological detail” (a very felicitous turn of phrase), one ought to admire their franchise. They know exactly what they want and they are going about getting it in a frank and honest fashion. If it’s not your thing, you don’t have to be in that scene, and/or simply say no when asked. De gustibus non disputandum est.
The people the questioner was referring to are the people who pretend to be in love with you when all they really want is to have sex. That’s hypocrisy and dissembling, and “using”.
Speaking of hypocrisy: I don’t disapprove of proletarian people who stay in the closet personally, especially adolescents and people who move in very conservative milieus. (I try to avoid dating them, but that’s another story.) However, when you’re as rich as Ricky Martin (just to pick a name randomly out of the air), it’s not like you’re going to lose everything by being disowned or something. There’s pretty much no excuse for a celebrity to stay in the closet when there are gay kids who need his or her role modelship in this celeb-worshiping culture.
“Goboy, as someone who does this, I would argue that there’s a difference between honestly looking for sex, and looking for sex by pretending you’re looking for love. Sex is a perfectly good thing to be looking for; rather than putting down the guys who post their “urological detail” (a very felicitous turn of phrase), one ought to admire their franchise. They know exactly what they want and they are going about getting it in a frank and honest fashion. If it’s not your thing, you don’t have to be in that scene,
and/or simply say no when asked. De gustibus non disputandum est”
Don’t get me wrong; I like sex, and there’s nothing wrong with getting laid when you have the itch. It seems to me, though, that there is no romance, no possibility of finding someone who wants more than just a good time. I’m not putting down guys for being frank about their desires, but is that all there is? You may supply the appropriate Peggy Lee tune here.