Ask the Gay Guy II!

Great Debates
1

{This thread is a continuation of the original “Ask the Gay Guy!” thread.}

Response to the original Gay Guy thread has been great! Alas, 10 pages and 450 posts is too long, so here we are at Ask the Gay Guy II!. For the sake of continuity, I’ll re-post the original premise here:

As there seems to be more than just a little misinformation out there, both subtle and gross, about homosexuality, this thread is here to function along the lines of “Homosexuality 101: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Homosexuality But Were Afraid To Ask.”

Essentially, if you have a question regarding homosexuality (i.e., “Why are people gay?” “What does top/bottom mean?” “What’s your phone number?” ;)), post it here, and I and several of my gay male cohorts here on the SDMB (Otto, SqrlCub, matt_mcl, and others) will post our personal experiences and knowledge on the subject. No, none of us are “experts” on homosexuality, but we do know what it’s like to be gay, so between our personal experiences and factual data we can cite, it seems to be useful for some people to even have one gay person’s point of view. (Personally I used to do these things in sociology, social work, etc. classes in college - basically it was, “Hi, I’m gay - any questions?” and people would write down questions and a bunch of us would answer them. We called them MTQ’s [Meet The Queers].)

Fortunately, we have also been blessed with even more diverse points of view on this board. First, we have several lesbians (beakerxf, neuro-trash grrrl, and others) who have been willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us. Then, we have several bisexual men and women (Quadell, and others) who have also been kind enough to impart us with their wisdom. (And please, if you have any bisexual-specific questions, pop over to Chef Troy’s “Ask the closeted bisexual guy!” thread and post them there!) Alas, to date there have been no self-identified transgendered folk here, but if questions are asked, we will answer to the best of our abilities, seek others who could answer more directly from a personal perspective, or cite from other sources on the topic.

Fortunately everyone has adhered to a few simple rules, which I’d like to see continue:

[ul][li]No flaming (other users, that is); that’s what the Pit is for.[/li][li]No religious debates; there are adequate other threads in GD for that.[/li][li]No civil rights debates; there are adequate other threads in GD for that, too.[/li][li]Opinions should be expressed in a non-abusive way (at least try not to be offensive, and assume what you’re reading isn’t intended that way, either).[/li][li]If you are expressing an opinion, do not state it as fact, unless you have the cites to back it up.[/ul][/li]
So let’s open up the floor once again… any questions?

Esprix

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For the sake of documentation, here is a page-by-page summary of the original Ask the Gay Guy! thread:

Page 1: AIDS research funding, anal intercourse, using the word “queer,” being openly gay, top/bottom, cruising, how to come out as a heterosexual, outing.
Page 2: gay fashion, how to spot cruising, divas and musicals, being out and in, coming out to yourself, bottoming, sexual obsession, lisping, gaydar, lesbian sex, the “it’s not a choice” argument, more anal sex, hate crimes.
Page 3: More Broadway, public displays of affection, Vermont civil unions, more fashion, more anal sex, more gaydar, gay characters on TV.
Page 4: Coming out to your family, lesbian self-identity, bisexuality, gay erotica, “homophobia,” gay-bashing and more hate crimes, faux homosexuality, more anal sex, how to find out if someone is gay.
Page 5: Symbols, attractiveness, stereotypes, role models, gay celebrities, dating.
Page 6: Answering surveys, gay media coverage, effeminacy, more gay celebrities, drag queens and transvestites, gay dolls, dating women, sex, oral sex, porn book stores, more attractiveness.
Page 7: More cruising, gay icons, pedophilia, gay phrases, gay songs, SkySlash needing a date, turning down gay advances, telling someone you’re accepting.
Page 8: Safer sex, more attractiveness, bath houses and sexual antics, AOL, parental relationships, straight men who are perceived as gay, bad things happening, obviousness, more gay-bashing, gay marriages, lifespans.
Page 9: More gay marriages (legal history), the Millennium March on Washington and commercialism, orgasms, ENDA, more gay icons, this thread & SDMB attitudes, Stonewall.
Page 10: Thread closed.

Of course anyone is always free and welcome to ask any of these questions again here, but it also might be helpful for you to read what was posted in the original thread.

We aim ta please! :wink:

Esprix

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I never got a chance to read through the orginal ATGG, so forgive me if this has been asked, but what sort of “mechanical” difficulties arise for bowel movements with a loose sphincter?

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Esprix, and others, I just thought you might like to see this:

From the Concord, Vermont MONITOR:

As the mother of a gay son, I’ve seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be.

Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I’ve taken enough from you good people.

I’m tired of your foolish rhetoric about the “homosexual agenda” and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.

He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called “fag” incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn’t bear to continue living any longer, that he didn’t want to be gay and that he couldn’t face a life with no dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don’t know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn’t put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it’s about time you started doing that.

No choice
At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won’t get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don’t know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you’d best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it.

For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I’m puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will?

If that’s not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I’ll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for “true Vermonters.”

Principles?
You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn’t give their lives so that the “homosexual agenda” could tear down the principles they died defending.

My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart. He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn’t the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can’t bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage.

You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about “those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing” asks: “What ever happened to the idea of striving . . . to be better human beings than we are?”

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?

(Sharon Underwood lives in White River Junction, Vt.)

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First, allow me to clear up any confusion.

Otto had in the original Gay Guy thread posted that he was having problems loading the thread - it was taking way too long because of how big it had become. In response to this, I went to our good Moderators DavidB and Gaudere in About This Message Board and asked what I should do, as I would have rather kept the thread as one instead of breaking it up as two. At the same time, the board switched to vBulletin, so I was also waiting for not only the initial flurry of activity to die down, but also to see if any problems persisted. The response from the techs was that vB ought to be able to handle threads of any size, so closing a long thread for fear of it crashing the board or some such shouldn’t be necessary. Therefore, I didn’t immediately break out into a second thread.

However, I made a grievous error and did not inform Otto that I’d made this inquiry and what the result was. I also was not aware that his problems were actually worse with the new software (and there was at least one other person who mentioned they, too, were having problems with the long thread and the new software). So, not having gotten a response from me about his problem and suggestion, he went ahead and started an “Ask the Gay Guy! II” thread.

Well, ok, I admit it - I’m an egotist. (Are any of you really surprised?) I think of this thread as my baby, even though I have no proprietary rights whatsoever. Plus, I’m extraordinarily anal-retentive. (Hey, I’m a secretary - it’s my job.) When Otto had originally made the suggestion, I had a plan for how to go about doing it should it become necessary (the results of which are at the beginning of this thread, namely re-posting the OP and the rules we’d be sticking to, coming up with a summation of the original thread, and posting a link to this thread), so I kind of jumped on him when he went ahead and did it, and for that, I apologize. But, with his and the mods’ help, I’ve managed to actually do it the way I originally had in mind.

However, let me take the time to publicly apologize to Otto if I offended him in any way. I kind of snapped at him, but that was just because the move took me by surprise. He is certainly not someone I would intentionally offend. I also apologize for not communicating with him about following up on his request, giving him the answer I got, and not letting him know my intent.

I will go ahead and re-post his reply from the original thread next so people can read it here. Additionally, any responses left hanging from the original thread I’ll respond to here as well.

Thanks all for your patience. On to another 10 pages! (Um, er, just not all in one thread, of course! :D)

Esprix

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This was asked and covered in the original thread. According to Dr. Boyfriend and several studies, absolutely no colo-rectal/anal problems arise from regular anal intercourse in a not unusual fashion (i.e., sitting on bowling balls is not advised). What goes up is under normal circumstances the same size and shape of what comes down, so the musculature of the area is designed to handle it.

Esprix

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On 05-08-2000 03:57 PM Otto posted the following:

OK, I for one am tired of waiting like three minutes for the original <b>Ask the Gay Guy!</b> thread to load. I suggested opening part II a while ago and the <b>Gay Guy!</b> didn’t answer, so I’m taking it on myself to go ahead and open it.

Maybe, maybe not, it depends on the strength of the law in question. ENDA, at least the last version of it I read, was fairly narrow in scope and it carved out a number of exceptions. It also contained some fairly anti-gay language about quotas and domestic partner benefits.

We had a huge win in Vermont, but we haven’t had a state-level law pass for several years except California which strengthened an existing law and Maine which was repealed. In the last month two states have passed laws barring adoptions. I don’t know how much of a roll we’re really on, and I’m really concerned that by passing ENDA it would undercut our other issues.

Otto

I haven’t read any of the ENDA language, only heard some summations of it. Do you have any URLs with some more info? I know I’d like to read up on the darned thing.

I try to keep up on all the latest legislation being passed state-by-state, but it’s hard to keep up - it seems every time we get a non-discrimination law passed somewhere, another state is banning gay adoptions.

If ENDA passes, do you think it might pave the way for more national-level legislation that might void out some of these anti-gay state or local laws that have passed recently?

Esprix

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Ptahlis wrote:

So gay men would only be interested in sexual rebels? Naw - as has been pointed out, it was Judy’s life, as well as (or perhaps because of the contrast to) her onscreen portrayals, that made her so tragic, and hence appealing to people who needed an outlet for their own problems. Maybe Madonna does reflect gay men’s more 90’s attitude toward their sexuality, but in the 1950’s, Judy was the proper reflection for gay men for their own time. I’d say it’s more of a generational thing.

tracer wrote:

Can you believe it? I hear some of those ancient Romans were, too. :smiley:

Esprix

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Well, of course, because the decade of the 50s would have been during the height of the Roman Empire, when emperor Claudius died and …

… oh, wait, you meant the 1950’s. <rimshot>

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Hi Gay Guy!

I finally have a question about some terminology mentioned on another thread.

Water sports. (I think I know what this involves, but am not sure.) What are they? How common are they practiced?

Roman baths? Is that another term for bath houses?
Ok, I guess I have another question. I’m not a Melissa Etheridge or Indigo Girls fan. Am I an inadequate lesbian? Should I hand in my membership card right now?

11

Wow, that letter from VT was incredible. That women gets a huge round of applause from me!

Ok, here is my question, which I have discussed in depth with my best friend kenny, who is gay. I don’t think this was covered in the original thread, as I did not read the whole thing:

Do you think the stereotypical gay mannerisms - effeminite voice, hand gestures, innate style sense - are learned or already there? I mean, Kenny knew he was gay when eh was 10, and he has always been like that, even though he had no gay rolemodels. So whaddya think?

"We don't go straight in this car. We go gayly forward." ~Kenny
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I can answer this…

If you think you know what this involves, you’re probably right. For those of you who need it spelled out, it is sex play involving urine. You know, golden showers. I don’t know how common it is, but it has been showing up in the skin magazines a lot more lately. On the other hand, the concept still turns a lot of people off. But once you get down to it, urine is sterile, and it doesn’t taste at all nasty like you’d expect… uh, I didn’t just type that out loud, did I?

By the bye, I’m not a Melissa Etheridge or Indigo Girls fan, either.

13

If this already has been asked and aswered, please ignore …

Somewhere I heard a rumor about parties where HIV negative gay men ‘mingle’ with HIV positive gay men in a deliberate attempt to contract HIV. At these gatherings, the HIV positive gay men are said to give the ‘gift’ to those who are HIV negative. The idea is that having the AIDS virus is an important social/cultural identity for those who participate.

What is this? Urban legend? Ugly lie? Half truth?

Have you heard this before?

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Honestly, for me I don’t know (i’m gay BTW). I dont have an effeminate voice (it’s quite low, or so i’ve heard), my hand gestures aren’t flamboyant, and i dont really think I have much style (I stick to jeans and t-shirts and hate having to dress up). I get embarassed by being too “out there”, and always have. I think maybe with your friend it’s just how he is.

Conversely, I have a friend who is straight (well AFAIK, I never asked him his orientation, and I dont think it’s important to our friendship that I do), and he has kind of an effeminate voice, is kind of flashy, and has style. I know my friends Liz and Ann wondered about him for a while. He did however grow up with lots of sisters, and i forget if his parents are divorced or not (yeah i know, i should know that, him being my friend. So sue me ;).

15

Well Neuro, that and often enemas. It seems to be pretty popular on my travels around the web, and is frequently encountered on sites with a heavy emphasis on S&M, and also Leather fetish sites (usually goes hand in hand with these, i’ve noticed).

16

This was actually covered in the other thread (I think), but anyway, i’ll tell you what i know…
I have heard of this as well. I actually came across a webpage devoted to this about three years ago (amazing what you find, no?). It had contact information for guys who wanted to recieve HIV tainted sperm (by barebacking), and there were men who were willing to give it. I was never sure if it was for real or not, but the stories they had (about how the men got it) seemed convincing. I dont know if it’s still up or not, and i’m not about to try to look for it.

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tdn, thank you for posting that letter. I’m sure the poor woman got flamed quite well in response, but I think she’s tops in my book. :smiley:

beakerxf asked:

What neuro said, basically. “Water sports” is the general term for “toilet play.” “Golden showers” involve urine, and “brown showers” involve feces and/or enemas. Although Doobieous mentioned the leather and/or S&M communities, I would say the practice is more visible there, but I wouldn’t say they were required of each other. I’d say this is an extremely small percentage of both homosexual and heterosexual sex play, but I do not have exact figures handy. Personally, it totally grosses me out, but to each his own.

I’ve heard the term used before, but usually it’s just “bath house.” (Anybody need that explained, too?)

No, but I wouldn’t bother filling out the warranty card on that toaster oven… :wink:

Nacho4Sara asked:

Stereotypes exist for a reason - sometimes they’re true; or, rather, parts of them are true. What makes them inaccurate is that not every stereotypical attribute can belong to a single (or, for that matter, every) member of a group. So, yes, some gay men have lisps, some gay men are effeminate, etc. Learned or innate? I’d say, like homosexuality itself, a combination of the two. He may have had no gay role models, but society is very clear on what stereotypical mannerisms gay men should possess, and no doubt that somewhere along his development, whether it was when he was too small to understand, or when he was out looking for other gay things to use as a basis for his newfound sexual identity, there’s no doubt he saw some of these stereotypes portrayed. Did he then emulate these? I’m sure not consciously, but maybe subconsciously. I’d wager more on the fact that that’s just the way he is, and whether or not he was born that way or learned it during his development, it’s kind of irrelevant - he is what he is. :smiley: (Besides, poor SkySlash is the gayest straight guy I know!)

Boogarrheal Catastrophe asked:

The practice to which you are referring is called “barebacking.”

There seem to be 3 distinct camps involved in this new subculture:

[ol][li]People who are already HIV positive and want to have unprotected sex with other HIV positive people;[/li][li]People who are not HIV positive but feel new drug development will prevent them from actually developing full-blown AIDS (notably the new developments in protease inhibitor drug cocktails); and[/li][li]Those who are not HIV positive but have a desire to be so.[/ol][/li]
There are problems all the way around:

[ol][li]There are different strains of HIV, and having one is hard enough to fight and/or manage, but having more than one seriously impedes and complicates your treatment program.[/li][li]Protease inhibitors are not “AIDS vaccines,” although they have made tremendous strides in early detection; the chemistry, however, is too new for it to be used in such a manner.[/li][li]As you said, there are people who feel that being HIV positive is somehow the ultimate way to be immersed in the “gay experience,” along with an urge to return to the much more sexually promiscuous era of the 70’s.[/ol][/li]
All three terrify me. The blatant disregard and ignorance regarding not only for one’s own health but for the spread of such a dangerous disease is irresponsible, horrifying and ill-fated. Thankfully, although they’ve gotten a lot of press lately, this is still quite the minority of gay men out there, and I sincerely hope people wise up and stop this behavior.

AIDS is not over - nowhere near - and until we come up with a cure, it’s not going to be.

A big thank-you to Doobieous for joining our merry band and chiming in with some responses - thanks! :slight_smile:

Esprix

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No problem, Esprix. By the time I read anything in the other thread it had already been well answered or two to three pages back. It’s cool you started this and the other thread, and i’m glad to give my personal opinions and experiences ;).

19

Doobieous wrote:

so to speak.

20

True it is more visible there, and yes, i should have said it wasn’t required of each other. Of course, web sites are hardly 100% representative of most groups, and some webmasters may just group them together because they think they go together.