Ask the Gay Guy III!

wolfman Um… no, I don’t think there a correlation between being gay and being “hi-tech”, certainly not as strong as you are suggesting. Yes, a high-school boy who is gay (aware of it or not) might tend to be more of a longer than the average straight boy, and therefore be involved in more of his own, solitary pursuits. But I don’t think those solitary pursuits are more likely to involve electronics and computers than, say, playing a musical instrument, reading or martial arts (my own solitary pursuits as a teenager). An extension of your theory would be to suppose that any “solitary” profession – musician in a symphony orchestra, publishers/editors/authors, martial arts masters – ought to have a higher-than-average proportion of gays. I don’t have statistics to back this up, but on the face of it, this seems very unlikely.

Also, I would think that when the current Silicon Valley intelligentsia were teenagers, computers and electronics were not as readily accessible to them as such things are to today teen-age boys.

However, it is an interesting theory and perhaps not without merit. Worth exploring.

freyr So are you saying that you, like C.S. Lewis, are a lapsed atheist???

Christina25 Still working that issue out for myself. I was raised as a Catholic, and I still appreciate some aspects of the Church, but I have a hard time reconciling myself to a religion which teaches, however tolerantly, that I cannot be myself. This is important to me, because I was raised in a fairly religious family and so I hesitate to reject the values and beliefs with which I was raised outright. Then again, I have always had an interest in paganism, wicca and things like astrology and Tarot-card reading, even before I knew I was gay. So perhaps coming out is the most personal, but not the only, thing which has brought me to my current “crisis of conscience”. Luckily I don’t have anyone (family or otherwise) beating me over the head with the Bible, telling me how wicked I am and rejecting me because their religious belief teach them intolerance and disrespect.

I have been to Unitarian Universalist services a few times and felt very comfortable there. They are very accepting and welcoming to people of all persuasions, and recognize that every religion – every person, perhaps – contains some grain of truth from which we can all learn and benefit. I find this a beautiful way of looking at the world.

I still believe in god in some sense of the world. Lately I have found myself speaking of “the Universe” where others might use the word “God”.

I dont think my sexuality has really affected my religious experiences. I was raised Catholic, but mom always told us she wouldnt mind if we became other religions, in fact she said she wouldn’t mind if we didnt go through confirmation (Mom has always said she’d thought i’d marry a Buddhist anyway :)). In fact she’s quite liberal about her religious views. I had always been kind of indifferent towards Christianity. I never felt like I was bad, or evil for being gay, in fact, i cant remember any of the priests at our parish being particularly fire and brimstone (or even mentioning Homosexuality in a religious context). I’ve just kind of drifted away from it because my personal beliefs kind of overlap beliefs of different religions. I see myself as a sailor on the waters of religion visiting interesting ports of call.

My belief in God has always been one of it’s everywhere and doesn’t need to be split up, or separate from the universe (why should it be separate, or split up?). I cant really sum up what I believe easily, i’ve always felt that there’s something out there, but it doesnt have to be as it’s described in the bible, or Christian teaching. I really havent found any religion that as of now I can really get into, but Buddhism has always been interesting to me.

As a new father I find the processes that went on within myself as I led up to it interesting. The pull to procreate was strong in me and I’ve very much found the joys of parenting (and the work) to be as described.

Look, I’m not sure how to say this (I’ve typed it several times and think each one is more foolish sounding than the last) so I hope everyone will take it in the spirit in which it is intended: given the lack of offspring from Gay and Lesbian unions, how do you reconcile yourself to a need to procreate? Is it a big issue in your life? Would you adopt if given the opportunity? And are there still strong barriers against adoption by gay couples? If there are and they were removed would more gay couples adopt?

Thanks for any answers. Heck, I’m just tickled to be in an ‘Ask the Gay Guy’ thread. Now I feel like I belong.

I don’t feel a need to procreate, and don’t believe I will. Granted, I’m only 18, but my father made enough mistakes with me that I don’t think I could ever accept the responsibility of forming an entire human life. (Of course, once my brother has children, I will be the World’s Most Doting Uncle.)

Personally, I really don’t feel a need to have children. I am 21 of course, but i dont think I will ever want to have kids. I guess, if I did have a desire, and I could, I would adopt. I’m content to let my brothers have kids, and I’m glad to be a new uncle. And, having two brothers, the pressure isnt on me to carry the family name either.

I’m more interested in knowing whether they’re thicker…

:smiley:

Now that everything’s settled down at work (and I have the week to myself), I figured I’d do some quick catch-up on stuff that’s been posted herein.

Sunshine, I think everyone gave you good advice about officiating similar ceremonies – you can certainly say no and not feel guilty. But we never heard – how did the actual service go?

andygirl, personally, as I get older, I seem to get more agoraphobic, and pride events become less and less thrilling (I was talked into going to the MmoW, but that’s the last one I’m going to for a while). However, I do seem them as a chance to celebrate our history, our achievements, the fight we still have to battle, and our sense of community. I hope we, like other communities, always celebrate our own lives as well as celebrate the lives and differences of others.

Wildest Bill, as my bisexual friends have told me, some people like vanilla, some like chocolate, and some like both. Why? Who knows – and more importantly, who cares? Do what you do and harm no one in the process. And I’ll agree with what matt said about butch and femme traits – the gay community provides a freedom to explore that the straight community doesn’t. (Sometimes it’s good to be a sexual rebel! ;)) And no, I’ve never had sex with a woman.

Estrella, never had an erotic dream about a woman, but, as I’ve said before, I did become aroused while watching Sophia Loren in “Pret-a-porte.” No idea why. Didn’t exactly freak me out, but it did surprise me.

vanilla, I had a crush on Freddie White in the fourth grade, which, in retrospect, was my first inkling. I had typical adolescent dreams about my classmates in junior and senior high. My freshman year of college I met my first group of openly gay people, and kinda went, “Oh, yeah, that’s it,” and came out. Life hasn’t been the same since. :wink: (Oh, and it took me another year before I had sex for the first time.) And accepting faiths? Quite a few, but none with the numbers of those that don’t. (Although I should clarify – they accept homosexuals, but not homosexual behavior.) Some that do include them, warts and all, include the Quakers, Unitarian Universalists, Metropolitan Community Church, and United Church of Christ. As far as coming out, my father called me a butt-fucking cock-sucking faggot, and my mother said, “I thought you were a gift from God, but I guess this is God’s joke on me.” My evil sister told me my life was useless since I was just going to die from AIDS anyway, and my good sister (several years later when I finally told her) said, “Well duuuuuuh!” Of course, that was almost 15 years ago – as of last week, my mother was upset because Dr. Boyfriend and I aren’t dating anymore, as she liked him (and he’s a doctor). She’s come a long way, baby! In school homosexuality was never mentioned in any capacity, but then our school had virtually no sex education in general (it’s tough being a white bread suburbanite). Everything I learned I learned in college. And the “indoctrinating” the radical right accuses people of is nothing more than teaching tolerance for those who are different from you, encompassing race, gender, orientation, religion, and a host of other things. Yeah, that’s bad for society… :rolleyes:

Badtz Maru, if you’d read the OP, you’d see part of the reasoning behind it. Although it’s set up as a question and answer forum, it actually started as a great debate regarding homosexuality. And since it keeps getting posts, and the board can’t handle long threads, we had to go to three threads. Perhaps if heterosexuality were more interesting there’d be an “Ask the Straight Guy,” but as they’re all dull and boring and… kidding! Kidding! Gosh, I’m a kidder… :wink:

Max the Immortal, as has been oft-quoted before, it is a complex combination of genetics, biology, environment, hormones, psychology, physiology, and a million other things that will most likely never be fully understood, so it’s not worth sweating over. And no, I don’t find myself attractive – in fact, I go out of my way to date men who are remarkably different from me in both physicalness and personality. Go fig.

Lamia, she might be a closet case, but first and foremost she’s a jerk. Stop avoiding her – why let her control your life? Next time she pulls a stunt, tell her off, and ten to one your other friends will jump in to your defense (if they are really your friends). If not, time to get some new friends. Heck, we love ya! Hang out with us more often!

vix, we aim ta please. :slight_smile: I once started a thread to get a pseudo-list of queer folk hereabouts – go see if you can find it in MPSIMS.

Biggirl, only you can decide if “fag hag” is derogatory or not. I doubt your friends mean it that way, but some women do find it offensive, so you make the call. I know I call my friend Natalie my hag all the time, and she can’t deny that all of her closest male friends are gay, so she accepts the term and calls us her “gay boys.” We’re good enough friends that it works for us.

Doobieous, labels are labels and we can accept or reject them as we see fit (or, rather, allow other people to do it to us). However, stereotypes exist in the “common mind” of society, so masculine and feminine are going to me, at least for the time being, those stereotypical man things and woman things. Best we can do is challenge them and define them for ourselves, IMHO.

Christina25, I was raised loosely Methodist (the best kind, IMHO) – no need to go to church every Sunday, but it was understood that that was our religion. When I was going through adolescence I decided I wanted to get more involved in the church, so I started going to Sunday school, going to church services, going to youth group, got baptized and joined the church. This phase lasted for about six months, then I lost interest (and not the least reason was that the class bully was also in my youth group and didn’t let up in the house of God, plus that whole “rock and roll backwards masking” service kinda creeped me). I didn’t really concern myself with matters religious until I got into college, at which time I came out and met my old and dear friend Myke. He introduced me to my now close group of friends, and many of them went to the local Unitarian Universalist church, where we would hang out. (No, it’s not a cult.) When I found out their guiding principles included acceptance of everyone regardless of their differences, and moreover celebrating those differences on a religious faith level, it wasn’t long before I found myself enjoying their philosophy and the kind of people that attended that particular church. Now I’m the friggin’ poster boy of UUism, including a 7-year stint as a choir director and sitting on various music- and gay-related committees. I haven’t been actively involved in the church for a few years now, but hopefully when I make the move to San Diego I’ll find a congregation there I enjoy (Sunday mornings are just the pits for me). So, yes, there are spiritual homes out there where you can be gay, Christian, and accepted.

wolfman, I have also noticed a high percentage of queers in the technology industry, but the reasons why are probably as complex as why homosexuality exists in the first place. Your line of reasoning, however, has not occurred to me before as well, so who knows? :smiley:

Jonathan Chance, as personal a decision as it was for you to have children, so too is it for same-sex couples. Thank goodness lesbian couples can artificially inseminate and gay male couples can find surrogate mothers, and thank goodness many states allow adoption, so that anyone who has that impules can fulfill their parenting wishes. Of course there are still obstacles, and the biggest one of all is ignorance from other people – how sad is that? At this point in my life I am not thinking about having children, but there have been times where I’ve wanted to be a father. For the moment I’m satisfied with six wonderful nieces and nephews and one slightly temperamental cat. :wink:

Whew! Caught up. Doing my duty for king and country (or is that queens and message board?).

Esprix

So sorry about your parents reactions.
…you have warts? :wink:

**MJH2 wrote:

freyr So are you saying that you, like C.S. Lewis, are a lapsed atheist???**

Maybe up 'til 1984, but after Solstice of '84, I have my own personal proof, so I’m satified. On and off thru my life, I’ve had reminders, so the atheist/theist question is answered for me.

**Jonathan Chance wrote:

…given the lack of offspring from Gay and Lesbian unions, how do you reconcile yourself to a need to procreate? Is it a big issue in your life? Would you adopt if given the opportunity?**

I’ve never had a strong urge for it. Yes, something of an urge, or more like the urge to help someone else learn the lessons of life. It’s never been strong enough for me to consider the question too seriously. I have looked at it and decided that I don’t think my temperment would be suitable for parenting.

**vanilla wrote:

Dear gay guys
I was told by some church people that the schools are now required to teach about homosexuality, starting in grade school (which is a good thing, since folks who don’t understand something only know of what they hear from prejudiced people).
These “church people” say that this is a form of “indoctrination”, as if the teachers are teaching these kids that you might want to try to be gay.
This is ridiculous!
But I am curious, do they even mention homosexuality in school (say health class?)**

I’ve had the opportunity to experience several school systems around the country. My father was in the service, so ever 4 years we moved. Unfortunately, my schooling years are quite a while ago (back in the 60s & 70s). There was never ANY mention of homosexuality.

One school system in northern Illinois did go into some of the basic of biological reproduction, even showing films about how the human body changes at puberty. But there was no mention of different sexual orientations. I don’t think that term was ever coined back them. I took high school in New Orleans, La, and there was even less there.

For me, I found several interesting facts in a medical manual my folks has around the house that also included a section on psychology, where homosexuality was mention. I don’t recall any details, but I finally had an idea of what was going on in my head.

I tried to post this earlier but got an error message, and since it’s been a few hours and my original post still hasn’t shown up I think it really didn’t go through. My apologies if it pops up later.

Thanks Esprix, and andygirl and lissener too. I think all of my friends are on my side on this one – even Lisa’s best friend told me she couldn’t believe how nasty Lisa was to me. What with that and support from y’all I’m feeling much better. Long live “Ask the Gay Guy”!

As I posted in the Pierre Trudeau thread:

I went to see his coffin lying in state at Montreal’s city hall today.

As I was waiting to get in, suddenly it slammed into me: he decriminalized homosexuality in Canada.

Check that. If he hadn’t said anything, which he could very easily have done, homosexuality would be a crime and I would be a criminal.

It’s an unusual sensation to realize you owe your freedom to someone.

Durn Canadians, with your liberal policies and your decriminalizing of private consensual acts. It’s anarchy, I tells ya - anarchy!

My condolences on your country’s great loss.

Esprix

[blush] How Freudian is that? [/blush] Don’t Ask The Gay Guy why he made that mistake, please.

Obviously I meant to say “loner”. At least I hope it’s obvious!

Well, don’t fret. When Stockwell Gay (I mean, Day) gets elected, he’ll have this country back to the traditional moral values cherished by our ancestors. (Except for “love, trust, and tolerate”).

“What a pie-faced dick-nosed son of a bitch!” - Lea Delaria

Excuse me, I’m a bit morose right now.

I’ve never felt much desire to procreate (and believe me, it would have to be a TOTALLY immaculate conception), but maybe the fact of not procreating leads so many gays (myself included) to pursue careers in the arts. A work of art is like a child we leave behind when we’re gone; it’s our way of passing a part of us on to the future. I hardly think that Michelangelo or Tchaikovsky or Walt Whitman could have bequeathed more to posterity if they’d created children rather than art.

Yeah, but what about theatre then? Or interior decorating? Aren’t these also equally valid parts of the gay lifestyle as well?

:: ducks flying objects, luckily limp wrists cause most of them to fall short anyways ::

Actually, was it ATGG I or II that the connection to the theatrical arts was discussed?

??? What’s this about?

I think panache45 was suggesting that people have the urge to (pro)create for posterity in different ways, and that perhaps, in gays, this “impulse” is wired for creations other than children more often that in straight people.

I’m sure panache45’s theory applies to many straight people in the arts as well. Often an artistic career requires the individual to make hard choices about his/her personal life. For instance, recently I saw a biography of Betty White (The Golden Girls, Mary Tyler Moore) on Lifetime. She said that very early on she decided not to have children, because she wanted a career in Hollywood, and she knew that she could devote herself to both.

But when a gay person faces this decision, the choice might be somewhat clearer/easier because the desire to procreate (at least for men) might be less urgent (than for women or straight men), and so the artist can throw himself fully into his work, so to speak, and leave behind a child of a different sort.

That should read: Betty White knew that she couldn’t devote herself to both.

MJH…Just be glad you didn’t insert a typo in one short word in your .sig line, then!! :slight_smile:

Well, fortunately I only had to type my sig correctly the one time!

Although the modified .sig would present an interesting idea…