did come out right
Quran 5:51
Quran - The Quran
5: - Sura Number
51 - verse number
ZIONIST CONSPIRACY:
Well the as far as the zionist thingy is concerned,I would agree with Cecil(unless he himself is a Zionist meant to disillusion us all:)).islam has nothing against jews.it is only politics that created impressions and the divide.These impressions sprung up after the crusades and of course the Zionist movement.
Islam does not believe in reincarnation.It believes in the world as a test of how we use or abuse the power of free will given to us.Then comes the eternal afterlife heaven/hell.
REINCARNATION:
As far as the boy who was a muslim is concerned,he is contradicting himself by saying he was a muslim in a past life.If this is true and he remembers the past life then i will probably be reborn a dog or something('cos i was believing in the wrong religion).You see if he was reincarnated then hinduism is true and islam is false so why the hell did he want to carry on with muslim traditions.I would never follow islam if i were reincarnated and remembered my past as it would be a contradiction on my part.Think about it.
No cases of past life remembrance have been proved,as there is always something that suggests that the person just made it up,the only real famous case was disproved by Cecil in one of his columns.I think its in the archives.I remember reading it on this site.
Bye
Zeeshan
CKDH: * Yes, there may be a few non-Jewish Zionists, and yes, there may be a few anti-Zionist Jews, but basically there is no difference today (nor was there ever) between Jews and Zionists. *
Hmmm. The soc.culture.jewish FAQ says this:
While I quite agree that non-Zionists are a minority among world Jewry, I wonder, how should we reconcile your “there may be a few” with the FAQ’s “there are numerous”? Anybody have any actual numbers? Also, what minimum percentage of non-Zionist Jews would you require to consider it legitimate for somebody to make a distinction between the categories “Zionist” and “Jewish”?
So, the whining is not only racist and anti-semitic, it’s also based on the false premise that the press is hostile towards Islam.
Wha-hat?! Man, I just got finished ripping Averroes a new one over on the “Islam and Science” thread for being overly defensive about Western attitudes to Islam, and now I gotta come back and do the same on the other side? You are right that the media frequently portray Palestinian refugees sympathetically as the under-armed underdogs, but I cannot agree that there’s no general anti-Islam bias in the Western (particularly US) media. Aren’t most Muslims in the world leading lives of peaceful coexistence with people of other religions? But aren’t we overwhelmingly presented in the press with the image of the “militant Islamic fundamentalist” threatening a reign of terror? You say “the press always favors the side that can generate the most emotional pull”—well, don’t they seem to have decided that they can get a lot of “emotional pull” out of Islam by reinforcing Western ignorance and fear? Why do many Western journalists, many of them non-Muslim (some of them Jewish, in fact) agree that there is an anti-Islamic bias in the media overall if it’s all “crap”?
Just one question before i answer the rest of your points CKDextHavn, are you a Zionist?
What I meant is, what’s the deal with the content of Quran 5:51, which states:
The reason I ask is because our Muslim posters have, at times, said they had Jewish or Christian friends. Now, I know you are all good Muslims and would never do anything against the Quran, so, is there something I’m misunderstanding here?
So, I guess watching the Matrix would be right out, then? 
Hi,
Ricksummon,If it is permissible to marry a christian or a jew then friendship is certainly not a problem.No we are not rebellign against the Quran in having christian friends.You were probably misled into thinking this as muslims have friends of so every religion and no muslim has made any distinction in this regard.
The Quranic verse you are referring to is not 5:51, it is actually 5:54,
It actually states:
“O ye who believe!
Take not the jews
And the Christians
For your friends and protectors:
They are but friends and protectors
To each other. And he
Amongst you that turns to them
(For friendship) is of them.
Verily God guideth not
A people unjust.”
This is not in the personal day to day friends with whome we chat,walk around,have fun etc. harmless stuff.
This is meant in the sense of asking trusting them.It is stated with some verses on the nature of Christians and Jews and there unacceptance of Muslims amongst them unless they lose their faith to adopt Christianity or Jewism.
It means that you should not as a whole group i.e muslims turn to Christians or Jews for protection and assistance as because of their unacceptance for our type,they are more likely to combine against you than to accept you.This happened more than once in the lifetime of the Apostle and in after ages again and again.He who shares their counsels must be counted as one of them.This is stated 'cos God knows the nature of Jews and Christians in their unacceptance for Islam and considering it as a threat.Thus he warns us strictly.A good current day example is palestine.Mark my words,the palestinians are never gonna be happy if they trust the Israel favoring US.Don’t believe me…well wait and see for yourself.Thus a leader of his people who asks the Jews and Christians for support and Help is warned that he will be considered one of them because he won’t be accepted by them otherwise and if he is accepted otherwise then he is leading his people into danger.Well history proved it though i’m sure you heard it differently on CNN
Bye
Zeeshan
Bye
Zeeshan
Hey i don’t know about Abbas but i have seen the matrix so many times.It is the coolest movie ever,though i did notice a small fact:
The last human city is called Zion.Could someone please explain the significance of this as you mentioned the movie in relation to Zionists.Could all the money i have spent in watching the matrix so many times be contributing to a very large Zionist fundraising campaign?
Bye
Zeeshan
Zeeshan, thanks for clearing up that friendship thing. I knew there had to be something I was missing there. And as for the Matrix, I was indeed making a joke about the city being called Zion. As far as I know, the word “Zion” refers to a Jewish homeland, so it’s used in the movie to refer to the “homeland” of all free humans. I doubt that the movie’s producers had any dark conspiracies in mind when they named it.
**
Well, I should point out (hopefully, without starting a holy flame war) that Judaism never requires anyone to become Jewish.
BTW, the word I belive you are looking for is Judaism (not Jewism).
Zev Steinhardt
Well, actually, the whole movie was a metaphor for Jesus anyway…
A foretold messiah who saves the world
Sacrifices himself
Is reborn
There are many examples of this in the movie:
Character named Trinity.
Neo is an anagram of One.
I’m sure there are other examples, but I can’t think of them off the top of my head.
Zev Steinhardt
Hey Zeeshan, what about my other questions? Do Muslims believe that Jews and Christians can go to Heaven without converting to Islam? And, do Islamic authorities consider such things as Harry Potter, Dungeons and Dragons, Pokémon, etc., to be promoting the occult? I ask that last question because many fundamentalist Christians believe that these things promote the occult. (Just for the record, I don’t believe that.)
**
Well, I should point out (hopefully, without starting a holy flame war) that Judaism never requires anyone to become Jewish.
BTW, the word I belive you are looking for is Judaism (not Jewism).
**
Yep Zev i know,but i meant it in acceptance terms,you are not gonna be accepted by jews unless you are a jew.It is about religious intolerance of jews,not requirement.I think you didn’t get what i meant.Sorry about the jewism,judaism thing.I know its judaism,but i don’t know why i always end up typing jewism.
MATRIX,
Wow Zev,so there is a conspiracy after all and to think that i funded it so heavily,being a huge matrix fan.Damn i am a Zionist conspirer.I’m helping the wachowski bro’s take over the world.Aghhhhhhhh…
**Hey Zeeshan, what about my other questions? Do Muslims believe that Jews and Christians can go to Heaven without converting to Islam? And, do Islamic authorities consider such things as Harry Potter, Dungeons and Dragons, Pokémon, etc., to be promoting the occult? I ask that last question because many fundamentalist Christians believe that these things promote the occult. (Just for the record, I don’t believe that.) **
Well RICKSUMMON,
Here’s a fishy fact.I asked several people this question myself but was given a negative answer.However i was reading the Quran and stumbled across a verse that said otherwise.I would like to answer this question later as i am searching for that verse that forms my belief that christians and hews will definitely go to heaven if they were good.However one more thing.People of all religions before Islam will go to heaven if they have been good and accepted the faith if they were offered it,which means followed any of the prophets.They will be considered muslims as it is all one religion and they are not at fault for coming into the world earlier than Islam.I want to come back to this later since i want to verify the info i have as i want to provide the proof to my claim.i.e the verses of the Quran lest i be condemmed for misinforming you about Islam.
Well i am a big Harry Potter fan myself.I watch many movies and as far as dungeons and dragons and pokemon are concerned i haven’t had the chance to play them yet.Its not an issue at all and we don’t care about trivial things like the silly issue:
“Are cartoons gonna make my child a serial killer?”
no way.We are actually more concerned with the stuff on CNN and BBC and how it affects peoples views about our religion.
As far as the occult is concerned.Islam forbids black magic.Somebody once cast a spell on the prophet too.Islam forbids black magic.
I am a horror movie fan.I am a bigtime ghost story lover and love things like that.I am yet to decide wether they exist or not,but my beliefs keep shifting.i am a bigtime Xfiles and PSI Factor fan too.
Well do these things promote the occult?Ask yourself.
Its like the absurd western notion that cartoons turn kids into serial killers.I mean people who worry over such mundane drivel should GET A LIFE
Do Islamic scholars worry over such mundane drivel…well not really but they do work up sweats over a lot of other nonsense.There is a lot of politics involved in some of the Islamic leaders etc. though most of the islamic dudes are really really nice…Islam isn’t really a religion in which you need to be preached to.It is so simple that you don’t need tutors telling you what to play and what not to.You’ll have a very good idea of what’s permissible just by reading the Quran.
I mean in the west you people follow churches,while for us mosques are just places of prayer and not institutions.All of islam,i mean all of it is contained in the Quran.Just get a copy with an english translation and you’ll have all you need to become a pure muslim.
Bye
Zeeshan
Well, accept is a pretty broad term. What does that mean?
Would I be your friend? Yes
Would I go to a ballgame with you? Yes
Would I eat with you? Yes (provided it was kosher, but I would hold Jews to the same condition)
Would I have you over to my house for dinner? Yes.
Would I be your business partner? Yes (if you are honest, of course).
Would I marry your daughter? No. But there are plenty of Jewish women I wouldn’t marry either.
Are there bigots who will shun you solely because you aren’t Jewish? Sure there are. But I hardly think the broad generalizations are justified.
Hey, I said it was a metaphor for Jesus. Jews (and therefore most Zionists) don’t believe in Jesus.
But don’t worry, we here at Conspiracy Headquarters will still accept your checks 
Zev Steinhardt
Zeeshan, I believe I’ve found the verse you’re looking for about Jews and Christians going to Heaven. It’s Quran 2:61, and it says:
Quran 5:69 says almost exactly the same thing. Still, right after that, it says in Quran 5:72-23:
Also, there’s Quran 9:30, which says:
Note: All of these quotes are from “The Quran: A Modern English Version” translated by Majid Fakhry.
So, we’ve got two verses that say that Jews and Christians will go to Heaven. On the other hand, we’ve got three verses which say if you believe in the divinity of Jesus or in the Trinity, which are fundamental doctrines of Christianity, that you’re not exactly Allah’s favorite person. So maybe Jews and Christians are allowed into Heaven, but they must receive a punishment before they can have their reward. Of course, I’m not a Muslim, so I leave it up to wiser men than me to do the interpreting.
**
Would I be your friend? Yes
Would I go to a ballgame with you? Yes
Would I eat with you? Yes (provided it was kosher, but I would hold Jews to the same condition)
Would I have you over to my house for dinner? Yes.
Would I be your business partner? Yes (if you are honest, of course).
Would I marry your daughter? No. But there are plenty of Jewish women I wouldn’t marry either.
**
Hey dude,i have jewish friends too and who knows,i might get married to a jewish chick if i like her.And i am still a matrix fan.
This verse is meant in terms of asking for protection.It is meant for leaders etc. asking the jews and christians for help in protecting them.It is a warning to muslims about the religious bias that jews and christians have against Islam.Its meant for leaders and guys who are responsible for the safety of the muslims they lead.If they want alliances and mutual protection and cooperation and stuff then God is warning us that we might think that they are our protectors and friends but they are only friends to themselves.It means that if their tribes/clans etc. genuinely offer you protection is when you become one of them (i.e belief wise or turning against islam wise) so by asking for their loyal friendship and protection(the tribe’s) you are putting your people in danger.
In islam there is a great respect and tolerance for other religions especially Judaism and Christianity are given the highest status after Islam.It was after Islam was spreading really rapidly and people from these religions started converting to the new religion,that their religious leaders started turning peoples minds against Islam and Muslims,this lead to wars like the crusades etc.Well now in modern times,muslim religious dudes have kinda picked up the act and so the biases have become double sided.
Let me clear things up a little.Islam does not in any way have a bias against jews.Read the Quran,you will see that our religion gives a very high level of respect to Moses and jesus and explains a lot of stuff about their mutual problems etc. If moses is your prophet he is also ours,David is our prophet too.We are in a way more jews than you are so we cannot have a bias against the religion or people.The only differences arise due to politics,and that is what we are warned of in the Quran.Its kinda like God saying “I told you so”.
Well its all on a collective nature and it means trusting a jewish or christian race in an alliance.
EXAMPLE:
The Usa had a defence pact with Pakistan.When Pakistan decided to develop nukes and stuff,they did not object due to their personal interests in pakistan(due to the cold war with the USSR).India had a pact with the USSR.Both are now nuclear powers.Pakistan became the only islamic country which has nukes in the process.America got the benefit they wanted from Pakistan.The Islamic militants were born through the collective efforts of America and Pakistan.They were brainwashed(I mean through sermons and stuff),taught that Jihad for God against the atheists(USSR) is a great distinction.Since the americans are considered christians by these dudes,they naturally thought that it was better to fight the atheists.Thus the Afghan war was born and the USSR was defeated and later on had to break up.Later on afghani militant groups(there were many of them by this time),started quarelling for power and started fighting amongst themselves(fighting is the only thing they were taught) and so Pakistan formed the Taleban.The Taleban were devastating and noone could match them so they took over Afghanistan and hence afghanistan got a govt. until there was a slight problem.Pakistan did not control the Taleban and neither did the USA.Also The usa did not need Pakistani support anymore so they shun the Pakistanis in favor of neighbors India which is of more use to them now(being a bigger market for american goods).Now the militant eyes turned against the next Oppressor of Islam.Namely America and so America is crying “Osama Bin Laden”.But he is after all an american frankenstein and the irony is that he was funded and supported by america for quite a long time(to do their dirty work for them).
Bye
Zeeshan
**
So, we’ve got two verses that say that Jews and Christians will go to Heaven. On the other hand, we’ve got three verses which say if you believe in the divinity of Jesus or in the Trinity, which are fundamental doctrines of Christianity, that you’re not exactly Allah’s favorite person. So maybe Jews and Christians are allowed into Heaven, but they must receive a punishment before they can have their reward. Of course, I’m not a Muslim, so I leave it up to wiser men than me to do the interpreting.
**
The verses don’t contradict each other.They will indeed go to heaven just the same way a muslim will,however the thing that God hates most is association of anyone with him and proclaiming anyone a God with him.This will be punished severely resulting in forbidding access to heaven.God knows best.He can and will forgive anyone he wishes,and will of course allow many good people of other religions to enter heaven.However what he hates most is proclaiming his prophets to be equal to him.Jesus was only a prophet and claimed nothing more it was not until later that christians developed the notion of the Son of God,to sorta add a mystical touch to their religion.
God hates people who worship other Gods alongwith him more than he hates people who do not worship any God at all so i guess it kinda cuts down their chances of getting in doesn’t it?
Well everyone will be dealt with the same on judgement day.The muslims will just have one edge,they will go to heaven no matter what,once they’ve paid their sins.If they are muslims they will one day go to heaven.
Bye
Zeeshan
Zheeshan,
To follow up on my previous comment, do you feel that the present conflict in the Middle East is primarily an Arab/Jewish conflict, or primarily a Muslim/Jewish conflict?
I’d just like to make a point that I like you, Zeeshan. And I appreciate the way you view your religion and others. You seem very tolerant about things, and you are able to explain the differences between what you feel and what others in your religion might feel that might be a shade different.
I’m glad you’re here…
Yer pal,
Satan
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4661 cigarettes not smoked, saving $582.64.
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"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
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Islamic Guys,
My first year in college I became acquainted with a young Muslim woman who was also a lesbian. I did not know her especially well and so did not have the chance to have many deep discussions with her, but she did once mention that although she loved Islam she was not sure if she could continue to call herself a Muslim since most other Muslims were not accepting of her sexual orientation. Is there anything in the Koran that specifically forbids homosexuality? Is it possible to be both a good Muslim and a homosexual?