I think you might want to go here,Muslim Guy. It only has a few posts right now, but there should be a bunch in not long at all. Everybody else should go here as well. If the link doesn’t work, this is the site: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1680262#post1680262
dropzone:
This is a new one on me. Unless she was baking bread…then there’s a blessing one makes when separating a portion of dough (as a rememberance of something that was done for the Temple Priests when the Holy Temple in Jerusalem had stood).
We do make blessings/prayers before and after eating, but other than the one I mentioned earlier, I’ve never heard of a requirement to pray during the cooking process. Perhaps your wife could supply more details? I’m totally mystified by this.
I have heard Muslims saying that Jerusalem is eternally vital to the Islamic faith; I have heard Jews countering that Islam never cared much about Jerusalem and just began making a big issue of it a few years ago. I think both sides are staking out polemical positions and the truth is in between.
Since in Islam we revere all the Hebrew prophets as bringing the religion of the One God that we both share, it follows that Jerusalem is significant in Islam for being a sacred site of David, Solomon, Jesus, and the rest. Therefore the first qiblah (direction of prayer) was toward Jerusalem. Mention of Jerusalem in the Qur’an is in verse 17:1 which tells of the Prophet’s Night Journey. The hadiths elaborate the story: Prophet Muhammad traveled from Mecca to Jerusalem where he prayed with all the earlier prophets, and then ascended to Heaven.
When the Romans conquered the Jewish rebellion, they trashed the Temple Mount. It remained in ruins and was used as landfill until the Muslims arrived. Islam revered the holy site, cleaned it up, built al-Masjid al-Aqsa, and rededicated it to the worship of the One God.
I personally believe based on my reading of the Qur’an and hadith that Muslims should follow Prophet Muhammad’s example by reaching out to Jews and offering cooperation based on shared faith in the prophets and the One God. I also believe Jews should take them up on this offer. Then Muslims and Jews should find an equitable way to share Jerusalem. Unfortunately, “Should” does not translate into “Will.” I’m aware of how difficult it is to make peace and harmony between the two sides. The political/nationalist situation complicates the religious issue.
Difficult or not, making peace is still the right thing to do, and peacemakers must continue trying because what else is there? More fighting? What good does all the fighting do anyway? If Arabs and Jews have so much fighting spirit, maybe they should fight against prejudice, bigotry, and hatred. They should fight against extremism and violence instead of fighting each other. With all the effort they put into fighting each other, they should make that much effort toward achieving peace and justice. They need to try harder to make peace. They haven’t been trying hard enough.
Muslim Guy - thank you for this thread. John Esposito and Amira Sonbol were my professors at Georgetown - Islam and Politics and Islam and Gender, respectively. They are amazing people who taught some of the best classes and lessons I’ve ever had.
Is it true that all you have to do to become a Muslim is say “There is no god but Allah and Muhammed is His prophet” three times?(yes, I know you have to say it seriously, it just sounds a bit too simple to me)
You just have to say it once, and that’s it! You’ll be in.
But it only counts if you really mean it.
What else were you expecting? Ritual anointments, incantations, candles, incense?
First time I ever wanted to give a standing ovation to a web page.
I just wonder how far that message will go…
I second the “word.”
And the applause.
Truth is the middle ground is a difficult place to stand.
Consider first the “official” theological line within different varieties of Islam. Regarding a) the prophet Mohammed, and b) the Qu’ran, are either or both considered officially “infallible”? That is, is there room, theologically speaking, for a Muslim to say “Well, it says this in the Qu’ran and I agree that that is what it means, but I don’t agree with that” or “I disagree with Mohammed about this part”?
Now, more unofficially, amongst Muslims themselves just chatting about beliefs and Islam and so forth, would comments or positions such as those represented above be things that you would expect to hear sometimes during debates and discussions?
Great link, Muslim Guy.
[rhetorical question]
What prevents this sort of reasoning from taking root in the Islamic community?
[/rhetorical question]
I know you’ve already addressed this, but it’s just plain sad that such superb logic cannot find a foothold amidst all of this insanity.
In my experience, AHunter3, I have never heard a Muslim say that they disagree with anything in the Quran. However, they tend to interpret the Quran differently. For example, almost every single Muslim I know drinks alcohol, and they justify this by saying that the Quran does not forbid alcohol, it forbids the use of intoxicating substances, and that this is just a guideline and not a rule, therefore if they do not drink to the point of intoxication they are not disobeying the Quran. It is a common belief, although I don’t know if it is the official belief, that the Quran is meant to be used as a guide and not as a rule-book, and that it is open to interpretation. In addition some Muslims believe that the Quran is meant to be interpreted differently as times change.
Anecdotal evidence of the life of the Prophet M. is known as the Hadith, upon which some Muslims place more importance than others. I believe that a Muslim is under no obligation to accept any of this, since according to Islam all the knowledge they require is in the Quran and furthermore Islam discourages the glorification of any individual, including the Prophet, who is seen as simply a messenger and not an embodiment of God. However, most Muslims will not disagree outright with any of the Hadith. They are, however, entitled to and even encouraged to question the source of the Hadith, and could probably reject it based on the unreliability of this source.
In other words, a Muslim is unlikely to criticise an action attributed to the Prophet, but he could refuse to accept that the event had ever taken place. However since the Quran is supposed to be the word of God unchanged, any Muslim disagreeing with the Quran would probably be seen as questioning the word of God.
(grumble grumble damned wife grumble changing her story after 25 years grumble grumble)
Wife: “Oh, no! I didn’t have to pray while cooking. Just before and after cleaning up. I remember the first few syllables, if you’d like to hear them.”
Me: “No thanks. You’ve ruined what little credibility I had already. No need to ruin it more.”
Thanks for the info (sorry for the delay here, I was out of town for a few days). I’ve heard from a couple of other sources that Ms Walker is not very reliable as a source. Too much effort to push the feminist point of view despite the lack of backing facts. Too bad really. It would have been a wonderful irony.
We need you over here.
Looks more like an athiest with an axe to grind, but I wanted you to take a look and help debunk her inflammatory claims.
Debunk what, CheapBastid?. It’s mostly a bunch of quotes. The OT does say all that.
Doesn’t it?
Peace,
mangeorge
My quibble is not with her quotes but her context. I was bringing it up here to point out that yet another ‘educated’ person is claiming that Islam is a violent and warlike religion.
From what I’ve read here that is not considered the case.
This is an informative thread, and I don’t want to Muslim Guy to have to repeat himself, so can someone help me out?
I want to know how strict Islam is on women and their roles. I’m sure a couple of versions of this have been asked and answered, so if someone can just tell me what page, who made the post, where it is on the page (“half way down”), that would be a help, thanks.
Two questions - can anyone shed some light?
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What does the Qu’ran (or any related texts) have to say about the responsibility of a country’s leaders to care for their population? From the stories I’ve seen, the Taliban are spending much effort and cash in pursuing war, while their people are starving. Do the teachings of Islam have anything to say about that?
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Can someone remind me why Russia attempted to control Afghanistan way back when, when they invaded?
Thanks…