Why does the study of Qabbalah require that you wait until you are 40?
Because “40 is the age of wisdom.” It’s a reaction to the whole Shabbatai Zevi thing. Nathan of Gaza used kaballistic teachings to support the whole Sabbatean movement, and there was a feeling afterwards that misinterpretation of kabbalah led to the bad theology that made Shabbatai and his movement possible.
The conflict stems from a passage in the Talmud about the Jews swearing oaths as they went into exile. Apparently, the Jews said that they wouldn’t try to force the redemption, on the condition that the surrounding gentiles wouldn’t kill them. Something like that, anyway.
A lot of Hassidic and Hareidi groups take this to mean that only the Messiah can ever establish a Jewish state in Israel, and that it has to be a theocracy. They see Israel as corrupt, secular, and a bad mistake. The Satmar Hassidim especially are known for being anti-Zionist.
Modern Orthodox Jews (and Lubavitch Hassidim, and probably some others) point out that the aforementioned oath was conditional. The goyim have been trying their best to kill us throughout history, so we’re off the hook for this one. They see modern Israel as a good start. (The Prayer for the State of Israel specifically refers to the country as “The first shoots of our redemption”). It’s not perfect- even the most fervent Zionist realizes that- but with work we could make something of it.
I think the idea is that the current country of Israel isn’t the Messianic kingdom we’ve all been waiting for, but that it’s a sign of things to come. (Other signs include feminism, nuclear weapons, and tension between Arabs and Christians. And possibly space travel).
Everyone. There is some sort of meta-Judgement Day, and then the really bad people get unresurrected. Or something like that. As you said, two Jews, three opinions.
I presume cremated people are no harder to put back together than, say, someone whose bones have completely rotten, or someone who was eaten by an animal.
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan has a fascinating essay where he suggests the Ressurection might be done through cloning. I don’t remember which of his books it was in. He cites various traditional sources to come up with the following scenario: the science of cloning is perfected. The messiah, or righteous scientists, or someone, is prophectically told the DNA sequence of Random Dead Guy. He clones the Random Dead Guy. God supplies Random Dead Guy’s soul, and there you go.
First I’ve heard of anyone with that name. I can’t think of anything wrong with it, but naming your kid “Messiah” sounds a bit weird.
Heh, ok, well you answered my question with stuff I don’t know anything about. What is Shabbatai Zevi, who is Nathan of Gaza?
Like Captain Amazing said. You’re supposed to be mature and grounded before you study the reality behind reality. There are stories in the Talmud about rabbis who studied mysticism and went insane, or died, or became apostates.
Not all kabbala is of the deep-mystical-deepness variety. Kabbala Lite would be saying something like “There are ten divine attributes manifesting in four worlds”; deep kabbala would involve spending years delving into what exactly ‘kingship’, ‘foundation’ and ‘knowledge’ mean.
Kabbala, like philosophy, is not for the weak-minded.
Shabbatai Zvi was seventeenth century man who had about half the Jewish world convinced he was the Messiah. Nathan of Gaza was his sidekick. By all accounts, Shabbatai Zvi was a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
To make a very long and bizarre story short, in 1666 he came up with the bright idea of going to Instanbul and converting the Sultan to Judaism. The Sultan was not amused. He imprisoned Shabbatai, who converted to Islam to save his skin.
The whole sorry mess left the Jews disillusioned and rather traumatized. Many people had sold all their worldly possesions in the belief that they would be magically transported to Israel. A bunch of people figured that if their messiah converted, there was no point in staying Jewish. A sorry affair for everyone.
The strangest part of the story to me is the donmeh (who I’ve often wondered since first learning of them if they really exist). When Jews were ordered to either convert to Islam or leave the Ottoman Empire, many chose conversion, but they secretly retained their Judaism. By day they would observe the Muslim rituals, at night they’d practice Judaism and speak Hebrew. (The fact that Islamic and Jewish dietary restrictions and other laws are similar probably helps this much more than if they lived in a Christian country.)
Many of the converts later left Istanbul/the Empire as well (many for Amsterdam) and either resumed their open Judaism or didn’t. As for the others, I have no trouble seeing how this could last for years or even a generation or two, but supposedly there are some families who have kept up this dual and secret identity for 350 years now. They tend to marry only within their own religious community- a near necessity if the ruse is to be affected.
ETA: Wiki
No parental expectations or pressure there.
I’ve heard of it, but I think it’s done mostly in *Sephardic families and not that frequently.
*Jews originally from Spain and Portugal. Sometimes the term is also used to refer to those from North Africa and the Middle East.
The movie Sallah Shabati is actually a comedy about a Sephardic Jew (Moroccan I believe) played by Topol and the culture clash with the Ashkenazy when he emigrates to Israel.
He was probably severely manic depressive.
This is incorrect. The Sultan had SZ arrested in Smyrna. It was not SZ’s idea to go there.
I believe this is all incorrect, and you seem to be conflating Marranos/Conversos (in Christian Spain) with the Doenmeh in the Ottoman Empire.
No one forced these guys to convert. They did it to imitate SZ, whose conversion they interpreted as being part of some kabbalistic aspect of the Jewish religion.
Okay, but he definately tried to convert the Sultan. Bad move.
I don’t think this is true either. (That he tried to convert the Sultan, that is. I agree that it would have been a bad move. :))
Shouldn’t “is a Jew” be in there somewhere?
:smack: Right. Be a Jew.
LOL thanks for the explanation, Malleus, Incus, Stapes!. It’s all so very interesting to me. Another thing I thought of - I realize the ultra conservative Jewish women either cover their hair with scarves or wigs. Is it just ultra conservative that do that, or do other orthodox women follow that too?
Most Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair after they get married- either with a scarf, a wig, or a snood.
OH, and forget what I said about Shabbatai Tzi- I think I remembered the story wrong. Still really crazy, though.
Along with the married woman hair thing…A Reform friend attended a funeral. Her Orthodox Aunt’s had stubble showing under their scarves. This may be TMI, but are they forbidden shaving their hair as a male relative could not shave?