andygirl… I want that shirt! 
I have also heard of usually unacceptable sexual behavior during hazing. Why is this so? What does this accomplish?
(A parody of this would be at http://www.fratbeat.com/. Warning: Do not open at work. May offend (especially members of a fraternity).)
WRS
I’d assume you’re referring to the “elephant walk” and paddling and stuff like that…
My chapter doesn’t practice that kinda stuff, since we don’t permit other forms of hazing either (the worst our pledges go through is fetching things for us, and even that is an occasional thing.)
As far as what it accomplishes, you might as well ask a Hell’s Angel what you prove by earning your Red Wings…
WeRSauron, what is your source for this smear, other than an anti-Greek website? To what chapter of what fraternity are you asking about?
I can answer this one also. Nope. They are physical and hazing does go on. Most of it is in good fun and I can’t think of a time I felt uncomfortable or upset by any I went through. Tired. Hung over. Stressed. Ready for Hell Week to be over with. But not uncomfortable.
The only things that bothered me were AFTER I became a sister and was no longer a pledge. My first RUSH I went through on the other side I was kinda icky with these girls being discussed by their physical attributes and judged “not thin enough” or “too thin” or what have you.
Aries
Alpha Delta Pi Sorority
Also dutch I know how it was at my school but at yours do certain sororities date only guys from a certain fraternity? I remember that being a big deal when I was in school.
What about dating a GDI? That was also frowned upon by my sorority.
Certain sororities tend to sort of have a “flavor of the month” fraternity here… one girl will go date, say, a Pike, and a week later a dozen of her sisters will be dating other Pikes too.
UCF’s greek system is pretty integrated though… the sororities here are mostly far larger than any single fraternity, and for the most part at any one time there will be at least one sister from each chapter dating at least one guy from most of the fraternities.
They do seem to frown on dating independents, although I don’t know of any fraternity members that have the same view of independent girls.
Ahhh! The tekes! The tekes! Good to know our local chapter isn’t a fluke. My school is a bit too young to have a really pervasive Greek system, plus it has made the rule that until all the fraternities/sororities can afford a house, none of them may purchase one. However, TKE is by far the loudest and most obnoxious frat on-campus. Also the only one I have a problem with, even if I know some good people who are in it. Its like they all have a frontal lobotomy when in the presence of beer, women, and eachother.
Also…
Could someone define this (Gamme Delta Iota?) and why its a big deal?
GDI = God Damned Independent (i.e., a non-greek)
Nobody will ever have a house until that rule is changed… I’ve never even heard of a campus where every chapter has a decent financial management program…
I am not referring to any specific chapter or fraternity - it’s a general image (especially amongst some people who are virulently anti-fraternity) that hazing involves what may be considered non-straight or questionable sexual activity.
I do remember one friend who dropped out of pledging because he objected to the hazing (as a straight man) because of the above reason (inappropriate contact with members of the same sex). Whether this happened or or not - the stereotype is there.
WRS
The TKE reputation is interesting – I’d heard of it before but had no idea it was so pervasive. At Cornell TKE was by no means considered the obnoxious house. (Although I do seem to remember they had a reputation for hazing.) They’re no longer active at Cornell, but I understand that was mostly due to financial reasons.
As for the idea of sexualized hazing, and hazing in general, the point (to the extent it still exists) of hazing is to wear down the new member so that his personality can be rebuilt as part of the group – this establishes a bond between him and anyone else who has made it through to the “other side.” Anything embarassing can suffice as well as physical discomfort. Hazing is a part of most student activities, and in my experience it’s considerably less prevalent in the greek system as other places because the greeks are heavily regulated. (Don’t forget the video of that high school girls hazing incident that was on the news a few months ago.) Of course, nobody hazes as well as the U.S. Army.
My own fraternity did not haze in any meaningful way when I was there – pledges were expected to answer the phone if they were in the house when it rang and that was it. There have been some reports about additional hazing (in particular, the participation in some minor and non-permanent acts of vandalism) since I’ve left, but investigation shows that it was actually pledges being stupid on their own instead of being forced into anything, and it looks like we’ve got it stamped out.
–Cliffy
P.S. My bona fides: I joined the Beta Chapter of Kappa Delta Rho (Cornell University) in 1992 and am currently a member of the Board of Directors of the chapter’s alumni corporation.
I can’t tell you specifically, because it’s a secret. But in general it is to be a loyal member of the group, to look out for the welfare of your brothers and be a true friend to them, and to order your life in a proper way. For instance, the motto of my fraternity is “Honor Super Omnia,” and honorable conduct is required from all of us.
There are essentially two stages to joining a fraternity. (Although some houses dispense with the first step.) Once you’re invited, if you accept, you become a pledge, usually for about a semester. You’re essentially a provisional member. If during the course of this the fraternity decides it made a mistake in inviting you to join, they can refuse you final membership. OTOH, if you decide greek life (or just that particular House) is wrong for you, you can leave immediately, end of story. Different Houses work differently – some make it easy to get an invitation (called a “bid”) and then cull a large percentage of pledges. My own House worked the opposite way; out of the 100+ people we’ve pledged in the last decade, I know of only two who were not invited to become full brothers.
Once you decide to become a full brother and are initiated, you’re a brother for life, and nothing you can do will ever sever that connection. Of course, you can still move out of the House and stop hanging around with the other members, but you can never not be a brother once you are one. (Some other Houses do allow a more formal severing of the connection, but not mine.) Indeed, one of the legends in my fraternity was that one brother (a cop) gunned down another who was involved in organized crime, but they were still brothers.
–Cliffy
I should point out two things…
- Being inducted (the formal start of pledging) has different promises from being intiated (the formal start of brotherhood).
Becoming a pledge, the general things you pledge, in layman’s terms, are : to respect the chapter and the general fraternity, to conduct yourself honorably and in a dignified manner, and to pay your pledge dues. The secret things you agree to (generally) don’t occur until formal initiation.
Also, 2) Most fraternities DO have a mechanism for the expulsion of initiated members, although in every case its rare.
Usually the simplest method is a chapter vote, with a 2/3 majority required to expel a brother. Also, a lot of chapters needing a “cleanup”… ie. a mass expulsion of members involved in such unsavory practices as drugs or hazing- may apply to their national headquarters to have members separated from the fraternity.
Fellow Phi here…
from an older chapter in Indiana
won’t tell you which one…we were HEAVILY hazed…but like all things…it lessened with each passing year…early 90s were still pretty wild
During pledgeship, we took a father/son field trip to Miami of Ohio to see all the Phi Delt landmarks there…then to start our hell week, we had to drive to Fulton MO and find Robert Morrison’s grave, and take a picture of ourselves with it(this was our ticket into the house to start the final week of pledgeship).
So I have seen our founding room, and the grave of our founder.
Some of the coolest moments are running into groups of fraternity brothers from other schools on spring breaks, road trips,etc.
“To do what ought have been done, but would not have been, had I not done it, I thought to be my duty”
I’m proud to be a Delta Chi. I like to think you earn your place in a fraternity, and in my experience, it was worth more than any and all of the work I put in to being a D-Chi. No matter what anybody says, you can’t “buy” true friends. You earn your frinedship with your brothers every step of the way.
Dude, whatever. :rolleyes: All that bullshit about “elephant walks”, “circle jerks”, bricks tied to your balls and so on are urban legends told to scare freshmen. I’m sure many GDIs would like to believe that all fraternity guys are a bunch of closet homosexual alchoholic date-rapists Nazis who drink their way into careers as janitors or garbagemen but that is not the case.
Your friend was probably a pussy and made up that story.
Quite frankly, I never understood people who were “anti-fraternity”. I can understand disliking a specific fraternity because the guys are jerks or not desiring the fraternity lifestyle, but hating the entire concept of a fraternity?
Well, besides the rumors, I believe anti-Greek people don’t like the elitism that accompanies the Greek system.
The abbreviation “GDI” itself betrays a slight sense of elitism.
Not to mention the belief that it’s hard to be a member of a fraternity (non-professional fraternity, anyway) without engaging in what may be considered irresponsible behavior (usually unhealthy drinking and wanton sexuality).
I know as a peer health educator, our biggest problem area was where the fraternity houses were.
Anyway, just FYI.
WRS
Well, yes, fraternities are elitist by their very nature. We set a criteria for membership and filter out those who don’t meet that criteria. It’s not any diferent than selecting roomates or friends you want to hang out with but it is percieved as “wrong” somehow because the process is more formalized.
The whole point of a fraternal organization is to be “elite” it is supposed to be something that people aspire to be in. Otherwise, what’s the point? Then it’s just a bunch of guys sitting around drinking and watching football.
That’s also kind of the point.
Great thread! Even though I know lots of people who were in a GLO, it didn’t dominate their lives, so it was usually never a topic of conversation.
A couple more questions …
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What’s the deal with “little sisters?”
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Why is it that fraternity members seem to universally love semi-jam bands? Not Phish, but rather Dave Matthews, Hootie and the Blowfish, and so on?