I’d ask for her hand, but if all I wanted a hand-job, I’d do it myself.
D&R
Well, your last question is easiest – Because I don’t know of what signs of respect that the mother-of-the-groom and future-wife have. I’m only familiar with the male side of the equation, and not with the female side. I guess I assume that the two women talk much easier and freer than men typically do – and if not, then during the wedding planning or some such events they sit down over coffee and “chat”. If I’m wrong, I do apologize – but again, as a male, I’m not familiar with the female side of the marriage equation.
Secondly, the “asking for her hand in marriage” has been around for hundreds of years. The advent of “asking for his hand in marriage” is relatively new, so there aren’t years of traditions to go on.
Now, as to your first question – My answer is definitely going to get me into trouble, so I’d rather not get into it. I prefer refraining from confrontation, thus my status as a pretty good lurker. But its not viewing women as “property”. Its about their previous 20 years as their daughter’s prime protector… and knowing that he’s about to become a secondary protector, as the new husband now assumes that role.
And right now, I know you’re fuming about this, and my choice of words, but there’s no way I can avoid it. I view women as something to cherish and respect, and there’s no way I can say that without getting the “No Woman Is Propery!” arguement. I don’t view it as you getting transferred from one estate to another – I view it as a rare and precious item receiving a new caretaker, someone who will care for it as much or more than the original.
Now, if you can make the same arguement about your husband, then more power to you. I only know this from the male side. But dagnabit… sometimes gestures such as this are signs of respect, and not signs of subjugation. For thousands of years, men have been protecting their women… and its kind of hard to just turn those genes off. Then again, I’m old fashioned.
(Now, I’m re-engaging lurk mode, as I’m not prepared to take the flack for this. 
)
I’m a single guy, but I sure wouldn’t do it. It’s quaint, but demeaning. I wouldn’t ask for a blessing either- or at least not before the hypothetical she had told her family. It should be her news to share with them.
I don’t consider my father my protector. I consider my parents my protectors. My mother had as much to do with keeping me out of trouble and supporting me financially and emotionally as my father did. She loved, cherished and protected me as much as he did. Granted I am closer with my father-but SHE is the one who works out of the house and my father is the one who stayed home which is how that situation came about. To that end, asking for their blessing, together, would be honoring their roles in my life-not that they would care one way or the other. Taking my mother out of the equation is inherently disrespectful and ignores her (very) large role in my life and reinforces the traditional notion that I am my father’s property or my father plays some sort of larger protector role in my life because he is the male and men traditionally protect women.
And as it happens I DO come from a culture where I was considered to be property. Even our names reflect it-my mother, sister and I all had my father’s name as our middle names (my mom and sister had it legally changed, I kept it). In my culture, after marriage the husband had the right to rename the woman-as in her FIRST name because she was now his chattel. :rolleyes: While my family is really liberal and has never followed this mode of though (no, my mother’s name didn’t get changed), I (and my family) find the entire tradition to be inherently distasteful and do not want to participate in it. So why should it be pushed on us just because it has been around for centuries?
I have no intention of flaming you or biting your head off for your views, though I admit to finding them distasteful. I just want to draw your attention to a couple of things.
I’ve bolded two things in your quote, and snipped a great deal. The bolded parts both say roughly the same thing, but consider. “[I ] view women as something…”. Why not, “I view women as people…”, or better, “I view my wife as someone…” Cherish and respect? Man, I’m all over that. I cherish and respect my husband, and damned if he doesn’t do the same for me. The point is, we’re both people not things.
Same with the second bolded part of your quote. Women aren’t items, and we’re fully capable of being our own caretakers. Sure, Dad took care of me for a lot of years, but so did Mom. Not to mention, by the end of those 20+ years that you’re thinking of, it wasn’t them taking care of me so much as it was them supporting me. And they still do that, even after my marriage. My husband’s parents support him. Better yet, all four of them support the two of us. On top of that, we support them. That’s what a family is about, and that’s part of why there’s such hullabaloo about family units and what makes one up and who gets to claim the status and so forth. Because a family is a support system, but it’s awfully hard to support someone in an unequal relationship.
I doubt I’ll be able to make you see what I’m trying to say, but I’ve giving it a go so that maybe you can consider your thought processes and words and how you treat people. As long as women are even remotely things or items to you, then they’re not fully people, and you’re really depriving them and you, because you take on far more than you need to, and you refuse the full extent of the support a female family member can give you.
How can we get to other insidious “traditional” sexism like the “neighbor’s wife vs one of the neighbors” language if we can’t even get to a point where people don’t call other people “things?”
Noelq, I know you’re back in “lurker” mode now, but what you have posted about how you feel about women seems to have them up on a pedestal, instead of looking at them as fellow human beings, and I don’t see that as being much healthier than loooking down on women. We’re just people, dammit - why is that so hard to understand?
As for men asking their future father-in-law for their permission to marry their daughter, I think it stinks. I don’t see it as a gesture of respect, and I would have been horrified if my husband had known me so poorly that he wouldn’t have realized how demeaning I consider this tradition. Asking just the father for his blessing stinks, too - you should be asking both parents or none. What are mothers, chopped liver?
My fiancé didn’t ask my dad for permission. My dad would have started laughing if he had, and so would I. Once I’d stopped laughing, I would have had to wonder why my fiancé didn’t know me at all. Instead I just went and told my dad that I was getting married, and he was pleased for us.
It’s outdated. I do not need permission to get married. I’m an adult. I make my own decisions.