Attack of the Crazy Woman

The BBQ Pit
161

Um, probably whatever brought you here. This isn’t my first post, or even first post in this subforum.

I’m not saying that I’m certain that he’s lying, just that it’s a possibility that should be considered, since there are so many people who claim to be special forces types who are not. There’s not many SEALs out there, and there’s whole webpages devoted to debunking those who claim to be SEALs who are not because it’s such a common claim. For most people who have been on the internet for any length of time, “I’m a Navy SEAL” immediately makes you question whether this person seems truthful or not. I feel the same way any time someone claims to have Asperger’s since it’s pretty uncommon but lots of people on the internet claim to have it based on self-diagnosis.

162

Don’t hold your breath

He just quit. In BUD/S training (and other very tough military training courses) they try to get you to quit. They run you ragged, they make you go without sleep, cold wet and tired. There is always a bell near by. All you have to do is go ring the bell, and you get coffee a hot shower and a meal. And you are out of the program.
I was going to start a pit thread on this, then I realized we are already in the pit, so fuck it I will do it right here.
I am ashamed of you guys and how some of you treat new members. I think Dnooman nailed it in the, Where is Gabriela thread, where he said

We have had discussions many times about how this board needs new members. Yet when we get a good new member some people seem intent on being fucking experts at running them off.
Congratulations. You ran off a great new member, one who had story telling skills on par with Master Wang-Ka. Good job, give yourselves a pat on the fucking back. Maybe we should change the motto of this place to
Running off new members since 1999,
it’s easier than you think
or
Losing members since 1999,
would the last person out, turn off the lights.
Either of these might be more appropriate then the motto we have now.

Sapo a special fuck you to your post #126. Despite your backpedaling in post #135 your’s was the straw that broke the camels back. Nice job Sparky. :rolleyes: That was a straight out insult, not only to the man, but to the institution he served. Don’t pretend it was anything but.
I think in a lot of ways, JAOV is like me, or I am like him. I tell the truth, and very few things piss me off more than being called a liar, when I am not lying. Thank OG I have been here since 1999, if I was joining now, the cool crowd would try to have my head over my CV and some of the shit I have done in my life. If a post like Sapo’s #126 came at me when I was a newbie, I probably would have rung the fucking bell (but not before I took Sapo to the pit) and gone elsewhere on the net.
Now either JAOV was telling the truth or not. Based on what he has posted, I believe him. A lazy cop/bad department? Gee how many threads have we had about that over the last 5 years? A dozen? Two dozen? Yet Guin comes in with

How the fuck can you get to 31,000 posts and not read any threads about cops fucking off / fucking up / being lazy? Are you now the official SDMB short term memory specialist? Nice thread shit. But no problem, it got another post for you to add to your total.
Diosa you are one of my favorite posters, but you were sure quick to jump in with Guin. Then when JOAV objects you weasel out with it’s just the internet, after all. I thought you were better than this. You sound like a 16 year old high school girl.
So is JOAV a former Navy SEAL? Based on what I have read, yes I believe he is. I have known vets, and ex-SEALS and other snake eaters. The way he phrases some things, and some of the things he says, makes me believe that the answer is yes. Even if he isn’t, this is a no harm, no foul situation. It’s not like he is pretending to be a doctor and giving incorrect medical advice in GQ. I would bet a fair portion of the group here have enhanced what they have told us about themselves. For example this really isn’t a recent picture of me..
Now I don’t have any fucking control over what you guys post, but just think about this. If you want this message board to continue (and keep banner ads away) we need new members. You just might want to cut new members some serious slack about attacking their CV and backgrounds at least until the sucker marks from the squid have disappeared.

ETA:

gigi did. Feel free to send her a check.

163

justanoldvet, I hope you’re still reading this thread. Reading this OP, yikes, and sorry for that mess. I also read your salmon story, and enjoyed those tales. You seem like a good fella to be on this message board.

Some tips for a newbie:(I’ve been around awhile, and have a good memory, but hold my tongue often…)

The disbelief factor: There have been plenty of times here, especially in the Pit, where some folks get crazy, and use it as “trolls”, or “sock puppets”, to stir things up. Check out the glossary for definitions. There have been some annoying humdingers, that have left members feeling wary.

I’m going back to my early time here, where stuff in the Pit used to really set me off, emotionally. Like any group/organization, you get the gist with experience, learn the personalities involved, and let it roll off you once the parameters are better understood. I can very much understand why in your last post that you “ring the bell”. You didn’t expect that kind of reaction, and it hit you emotionally.

I’d expect that being in an intense group like the SEALS had it’s own lingo, rules, and social dictates. A newbie there would probably be quite overwhelmed at first. Same here, you know, it just takes some time to understand how it all flows. With a new post in the Pit, you just got some of the regular response here; the folks who have some distrust are not aiming at you personally, just trying to preserve a good place on the internet.

I do hope you stay around, because this is a very intelligent place, for the most part. As, said, I read your posts, and like ya. It’s really worth the adjustments in psyche to get used to , no matter how old you are. And, how old are ya? There are lots of older posters here, and that’s part what makes this a great place.

164

This may have been addressed already (I haven’t read the whole thread) but at least around here, one can simply stroll into the prosecutor’s office and fill out some paperwork, and if they decide you have enough evidence they will allow you to file a complaint and help you fill it out.

165

When people falsely claim to be SEALs, it infringes on the honor of those who really were. There’s only been about 10,000 SEALs since the program was started in 1962, out of 300,000,000 Americans that’s a tiny percentage of the population (especially considering that many of them would no longer be living). I didn’t see anything in JOAV’s postings that led me to believe he had actual special forces experience, could you let us know what phrases or ways of speaking he used that led you to believe he was a SEAL?

The fact that he seems to have disappeared as soon as people started to question him combined with unlikely aspects of his story and his background (he also claimed to have been raised in a Catholic orphanage), makes it seem more likely than not that he is lying. But if he’d like to come back and tell us what his BUD/S class number was, who his swim buddy was, or some other details confirming his claims, I might believe him. He’d probably just say it’s all top secret, most of them (the liars, that is) do.

166

Get real. Then go learn some reading skills. I mean, maybe the fact that I quoted Rilchiam’s post was meant to be a distraction while I was actually insulting JAOV, but I think anyone with a inch of forehead or more would realize that I was responding to Rilchiam’s braying.

167

Dude, can you not read?!

Can you not see, in the quote box in Sapo’s post, who Sapo was responding to?

It wasn’t Justanoldvet. She was agreeing with Justanoldvet. Both Sapo and Justanoldvet believe it would be unfair to hold someone responsible for attacking a veteran if they didn’t know the person was a veteran. Hold them responsible for attacking a stranger without due provocation, but don’t hold them responsible for attacking a vet. That’s all Sapo said, and once more let me emphasize: Sapo and Justanoldvet are on the same team w.r.t. this issue.

Sapo was in no way attacking Justanolvet. She was attacking Rilchiam. Rilchiam said the lady described in the OP deserves special condemnation for attacking a veteran, and it is this view that Sapo was taking issue with in the post #126 you referenced. By taking issue with this view, she took the very same position Justanoldvet had in an earlier post.

All of which you would know if you would read, and think, before you speak.

Geez! Gah!

-FrL-

(I’m defending Sapo here for three reasons:

  1. I’m a natural defender. It’s just what I do.
  2. I fucking hate it when A gets mad at B simply because A does not know how to read. God I hate it. And with some minor variations on the theme, this song gets played all the damn time. :mad:
  3. Often when one defends oneself, one looks, well, defensive, and though its not fair, this tends to undercut one’s attempt to defend oneself. It is often better when it can be seen some third party, preferably an unrelated one, finds the defendant’s cause worth defending.)
168

Not that this is the first time it happens, and not that I care much about it. But. I am a guy. Sorry to disappoint :wink:

ETA: And thanks for getting it. As you said, I don’t make too much of an effort to defend myself as it often looks desperate. It is good to see that someone is paying attention. One person getting it is all I ask. The majority can go take a walk.

169

What the holy hell birthed this nonsense? I replied Guin’s original post because like her, the OP left a funny taste in my mouth. Actually, I had been thinking the same thought as she was while following the thread, so when she asked if anyone else felt the same way, I replied affirmatively. I was very clear in that my feelings were far from absolute, simply just a feeling I had. I also made it incredibly clear wherever the truth was, it was more or less inconsequential to the post, which was, in itself, an interesting one.

As far as my last defense of her, I really felt that HostileDialect was drawing more attention to Guin through his petty name calling than she was through questioning the OP. He came in swinging the axe he wanted to grind so badly that it was distracting and frankly, I felt it was silly that he kept blaming someone who I feel in this thread wasn’t doing anything wrong. If you like me and have followed my posts, you know I’ve had a harsh word or two for Guin in the past, but that doesn’t deter from the fact that I think she wasn’t acting like an attention whore in this thread.

I had no idea that on this board we were expected in the Pit to automatically accept every tale as complete truth. I wasn’t saying the OP is a bad person or that he raped Mother Theresa- hell, I even fully admit he may be telling the truth on all accounts. I was simply saying that while- independently- all of the facts he’s posted are believable, they come together in a way that is a bit hard for me to believe. Maybe I’m just a cynical asshole, that’s an entirely possible fact that I also don’t deny.

Sorry that you’ve lost respect for me. I honestly don’t believe I was wrong to defend Guin in this case and I don’t think it is wrong to question fish tales you hear. Sure, some of them are true- and that’s what makes life interesting, but some aren’t- and hey, those make life interesting, too.

Oh, and I wish I could defend myself this coherently when I was 16. Jesus, I would have been the high school debate champion of the universe.

170

If jaov is gone for good, that really is too bad. But on this board, you need to have thicker skin than that. If there’s blood in the water, the sharks will bite. It sucks, it surely does, but if a few posts are all it takes to scare someone off then that’s their problem.

171

No dog in this fight, etc. etc., and full disclaimer I just sent an email to justanoldvet expressing my hope he’ll come back, 'cause damn, he can write.

Seems to me skepticism is warranted, if only because, as T.O. points out, SEALs are rare and deserve respect; anyone who’s faking being one ought to be confronted, and everbody knows there are fakers out there.

That said, it would be nice to find a way to do the confronting that’s respectful. SDMBers seem to me to be among the smartest folks I’ve found online… but not necessarily the most, er, fair and balanced, especially if anyone thinks there’s a rat to be smelled.

I guess the question is, is it best to be so vigilant against liars and cheats that we kick the occasional ass of a truthful person? or is there a way to, um, sniff around the ass of the person in question before the kicking begins?

ETA: actually, in practice, I agree with the appropriateness of thick-skinnedness that G. mentions. But is that really the ideal?

172

That’s certainly one way to look at it. On the other hand, the problem may lie with the group of people who value thick skin over other, more important, qualities.

173

I’ll make no comments on the current brouhaha surrounding our newest member, however, I must say that for those who’ve been skeptical, I do believe this is the politest and most tame ‘confrontation’ I’ve ever seen here (especially in the Pit). And just like Oakminster (who although not favored by everyone, he made me seriously crack up with his ‘ratings’) who I tried to get to come back, it’s encouraged that anyone on the Dope not take this sort of thing personally. Now if NJaV hasn’t been online long, then I can understand, but overall you just gotta weigh the good (look how many folks here have been supportive and encouraging!) against the bad and take whatever happens with a grain of salt.

Just my .02.

174

The answer is to have some patience, and let the poster have some time to ease in here before doubting their veracity. Simple patience, listening to what they have to say, and not speaking harshly from the git go.

175

True dat. I think I’m partly thinking of **justanoldvet **as a new-to-the-internet type person, and while my *own *dad is anything but new to the 'net, **jaov **does remind me of Dad; if my dad really was new to the 'net, I’d be kicking all of your asses for dissing him! heh. So, maybe I’m jus being silly.

176

Well, yes. But sometimes I wonder if patience and SDMB-ness are antithetical? I’m serious.

177

No, no, I hear ya. My dad is 72 and there’s no way I’d let anyone say a single solitary bad thing about him. :slight_smile: On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that he wouldn’t even know how to turn the monitor on. :stuck_out_tongue: He eschews technology like the plague.

178

I dont think the honest (and mostly polite imo) cynicism was uncalled for, nor did jaov have weak skin. I just think he takes extreme pride in his background. With that said, can he actually be tracked down through VERISEAL?

179

I’m not saying jaov was a SEAL. I’m not saying jaov was not a SEAL. But I do give people the benefit-of-the-doubt. I do assume someone is telling the truth unless proven otherwise.

180

[irrational prideful hijack] *My *daddy was a pioneer in replacing card catologs with searchable databases in college libraries across the USA! And he sends me internet tidbits daily now that he’s retired… [/hj]

There. What **Autolycus **said… Cynicism wasn’t uncalled for, but it was probably rude; however, rudeness may be positively correlated with SDMB smartness and smartassness. And, I don’t think we get many legit former SEALs to kick around, so we might not recognize one when we see him. I would suggest that this could be to our detriment.