Actually, it’s really common in the film industry for a production to decide on a location due to the availability of various forms of government support, and for various levels of government to compete with each other to attract film and television production via offering various financial incentives. (Edit: at all levels: actual filming, but also post-production.)
I know Philly native M Night Shamalan has filmed a few movies here. Exactly when did he demand a stadium be built?
Money is money. Not all money is used to build stadiums.
Again, you have a bias against sports teams and I understand because you don’t like sports. But it’s not just sports teams that make demands like that.
“Without the incentive at this point,” he added, “it’s so competitive out there that the films just can’t shoot where there’s no incentives.”
No, it is not. How much did Philly spend on incentives for film makers this past year? How much would the city have spent on the Sixers’ arena in Chinatown? OTTOMH, a report from Septa (the local transit authority) said that the Sixers’ arena would cost them twenty million dollars. This was not a one time loss. Septa would lose that money each year. Last time I checked, besides the fares it charges passengers Septa relied on government funding. So, if Septa is losing twenty million each year it needs to both raise fares and get even more government funding.
Does having big studios film in Philly result in a net financial gain? If it does not, I am in favor of ending any incentives. If it does, then Philly is actually making money out of the deal and the situation is indeed different.
What other things does Philly pay for that cost anywhere near as much as professional sports? Yes, money is money. But, if you lose a penny you will not be nearly as upset or spend nearly the effort to find it as when you lose a fifty dollar bill.
Would you if a movie filmed in Philly makes it more popular? What about the money spent by tourism boards on advertising, that money certainly doesn’t pay for itself in the short term. Perhaps in the long term it might if it works and generates enough interest, but there is no guarantee. Should they just not bother then?
Maybe not as much now, but they’re trying to spend a lot more.
Pennsylvania as a state is very much behind and trying to catch up.
Also, don’t forget that stadiums aren’t just used for sports teams. A lot of them are used for non-sports events for most of the year. The latest major stadium in Seattle, which was built to house an NHL hockey team and hopes to attract an NBA team back to the area, is used year-round for concerts. My family has never seen a single sporting event there but has gone to multiple music events. In fact, in my life I’ve been to many more music events and other non-sports events at stadiums than actual sports events.
So, go ahead and gripe about music and concerts, and say that they are a waste of money, because many of these venues are used for that just as much. I assume you actually like music though.
An argument can certainly be made that cities spend way too much for these sporting venues, yet not only do they keep doing it, they compete for them. And nobody is holding a gun to their heads. The additional exposure a city gets for hosting a major sports team is just one of many ways that a city benefits.
Usually a city is lucky to break even with a stadium, but I don’t stop buying food just because the food I buy doesn’t earn any money; I need to eat. It’s a cost that a city spends because they think the benefits are worth it, and there is more than just a balanced budget sheet to show the value.
Does that popularity result in the city earning more mioney than it spent on incentives for the film? To misquote a rule of acquisition “Popularity and a nickel is worth five cents.”
If money spent to atract tourists and their money does not bring in more money than the city spent, yes it should definitely be stopped.
I do like musc (except for country and opera). If Philly had no sports stadiums, we would not lack venues for musicians to perform.
Again, how much is the city government spending on music and concerts?
I assume you can provide a cite that this is true for the city of brotherly love?
People, including elected officials, do stupid things all the time for no logical reason. Mayor Parker and the majority of city council voted in favor of building the Sixers’ arena in Chinatown. I am not entirely sure why. None of them ever explained that to the public.
I agree with this.
You also don’t buy food with the expectation of turning a profit. You buy food to not be hungry and to not die of starvation. Additionally, I would argue that past a certain point money spent on food is wasted. IIRC I saw a story on the local news that one of Philly’s five star restaurants was offering a burger made from the finest kobe beef, on some kind of very expensive gourmet bun baked in house, and decorated with gold leaf. I consider that to be a definite waste of money.
You kniow the old joke “Coke and Pepsi spend hundreds of millions on advertising each year. Yet when you order a Coke and they ask if Pepsi is okay you just say sure.”
The fact that the city spends the money is not proof of anything. The fact that the city thinks it is worth it is not proof of anything,
Certainly if there is a place where people can live, it is in the interest of that place’s government to make people want to live there. But, there should be proof the money spent is having the desired effect. Like food, spending vastly more money than necessary is waste.
They all are. Just Google “philadelphia stadium concerts” and you’ll see many, many concerts.
None of the stadiums you gripe about are just used for sports.
You don’t like them because you don’t like sports. That doesn’t make them objectively bad.
That is undisputed.
This is reflected in real estate values going up in communities surrounding a stadium once it’s completed.
Contrary to neighborhood activists’ concern that sports venues adversely affect property values, the findings of this study indicate that a new stadium improves housing values in the surrounding area.
I never claimed that was the case.
You said
You did not say ‘the stadiums are also used for concerts’. You claimed that the stadiums were used for concerts just as much as they were used for sports.
Kindly do not presume to read my mind. Again. I dislike them because they are an exceptionally large waste of government funds. Again on the local news last year, there was a series of reports on school in Philadelphia where all the wate fountains are turned off. The sinks and showers work. But everybody is advised not to drink the water as it contains unsafe levels of lead. The whole building needs the pipes replaced. Other schools still need asbestos removed. Call me crazy, but I think the city should spend money removing proven health hazards from public schools instead of building stadiums for private busineses owned by very rich people.
It was the claim of various organizations, some made up by Chinatown residents and some just sympathetic to their cause, that the proposed Sixers’ arena would have destroyed Chinatown. If the Sixers or any city government official ever countered these claims with evidence (rather than just saying ‘Nah. That won’t happen.’) I missed it. The organizations representing Chinatown wanted 100 million from the Sixers to help compensate for los of business and destruction of Chinatown. The Sixers countered at 50 million. The city government negotiated with them, The city got them up to 60 million. Why exactly would the Sixers agree to pay 60 million dollars if the arena could be proven to be good for Chinatown?
Yes, you can cite other stadiums. I know very little about stadiums in other cities. I have lived in the city of Philadelphia for roughly thirty years. I watch the local news (usually NBC 10) after work each weekday. I am familiar with the 76ers’ demand for an arena in Chinatown.
Jiust for the sake of argument, let’s say stadiums in other cities were good for property values. Is there any evidence that this would have been the case in Chinatown? As I recently posted, when Prozac came out my psychiatrist was eager to prescribe the new wonder drug. I had tried a lot of medications that hadn’t worked. I was eager to try the new wonder driug. I did not experience any side effects. I also did not experience any beneficial effects. After staying on Prozac for a while, it was obvious it did not help me.
Cite all the other success stories you want. Unless you can prove they are true in Philadelphia, they are irrelevant.
I read your words as you focus on them to the exclusion of all other forms of entertainment that the city spends money on, because it’s a form of entertainment you don’t like.
I don’t have to read your mind.
You’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that, and even understand it because I’ve shared it myself in the past. But it’s based on a bias.
@DocCathode you have real issues you are brave and generous enough to share with the board, and I feel bad now about going back and forth on one minor little point in this thread (about sports of all things). So I’d like to drop the issue because it’s a dumb thing for me to focus on.
Again, this is not true. I focuse on professional sports because the city spends vastly more money on them than any other form of entertainment.
No, it is not based on bias. It is based on the amount of money spent. Does the art museum get government funding? Does the Franklin Institute? I’m guessing that they do. Do they receive an order of magnitude less than our professional sports teams? I’m betting that they do.
For the record, I also hate opera and ballet. I know Philly has at least one opera company and I’m sure it has at least one ballet troop. How much city funds does eah receive each year? Has either one threatened to move to another city unless the government builds them a new theater complex?
Until the nineties, professional sports were simply another entry on the long list of things many people enjoyed that I had no interest in. Then, the Eagles threatened to leave Philly unless the city built them a new stadium. The whole thing played out in great detail on local television and in the Philadelphia Inquirer (the local respectable and reliable paper), I paid great attention. When the details were revealed, I came to actively dislike professional sports as massive waste or government funds.
Yes, there are plenty of other ways the city and state governments waste money. I honestly don’t know of any others that are remotely as big.
I appreciate your concern and your offer to drop the matter. I see no need to do so.
There was briefly a television show Boston Public, which often had great writing. The principal of the school learns that one of the students has terminal cancer. In a few months the kid will be so sick he has to drop out of school. He will die within a few years. The principal then observes onf of the teachers, Mr Lipshitz, being hard on that student. After class, the principal takes Lipshitz aside and has a chat with him. He reminds Lipshitz that the boy is dying, and urges him to be more gentle. Lipshitz responds ‘If I am nice to him, he will know that he is receiving special treatment and feel like a kid with cancer. If I am hard on him like I am with all my students, he won’t be happy about it but he will feel like everybody else.’
There certainly have been times on the SDMB I needed ‘reasonable accomodation’. Most of the time I don’t need it and I stongly prefer to be treated like all the other Dopers.
The woman I share an office with is a saint. Nicest woman ever. Unfortunately for me, she listens to Christian Praise & Worship music, LOUD, all day long, day in and day out. Makes me want to saw my ears off with a hacksaw. I don’t feel right asking her to cool it because I don’t want to poison the relationship, and church music is basically all she has (husband is dying, lost a son to suicide, etc.).
Nobody touches me. I keep my hat and coat on wherever I go.
Went to urgent care because suspected.
Yep. Nits.
I think you’d still be able to hear it, and you wouldn’t be able to
wear spectacles.
Earbuds might be less painful.
And the special shampoo is not covered by my medical.
11 dollars for it, plus 6 for laundry. There goes my rent.
Hey, it’s January – a new year! I just got the first Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan deposits in the new year, so time for an anti-rant! They’re both inflation adjusted every year, and the amounts seem to be significantly higher than last year. I presume that overall I’m not actually getting more value, but bigger numbers make me a happy puppy! Did I mention that I luvs our “socialist” gubbermint? 
I was out doing a quick grocery shop today, and man it’s cold and windy! Temp is -6°C with winds gusting up to 60 km/h. The combination is brutal. The cold snap also brought snow – Snowplow Guy had to do actual real work for the first time this winter.
But there’s always a bright side. I love the convenience of using the garage as a fridge, avoiding clutter in the actual refrigerator. I currently have in the garage: two cases of bottled water, three cases of Coke Zero, a dozen eggs, a bottle of white wine, a large pizza, and, needless to say, two large vats of clamato juice for Caesars! The garage is beginning to look like a grocery store which for some reason has a car in it. It will be a tough adjustment when the weather warms up.
This made the corners of my mouth turn up, and I need that.