Then why should Christianity be capitalized? Why is it worthy of being capitalized and Athiem isn't? BTW Athiesm has a belief system as well and it's that God doesn't exist which is also a belief if you haven't noticed. I just think it's a sign of degrading Athiesm and disrespecting it when you do not capitalize it. Especially if you do it immediately after capitalizing some religion.Thanks for the well wishes there X-er.
Actually I find it hard to really take this fight seriously. I used to. But it never went anywhere - just round and round
Life’s too short y’all (thank God for that). Calm down and drink some beers (that too).
As you note, it was merely a joke and not intended to seriously address your post.
I think it will always be difficult if not impossible to have a single day that people of all religions would agree on. Indeed nobody would be brave/stupid enough to seriously attempt it (OP subject excepted).
This last point, I’ll address first. Don’t be an idiot. You apparently don’t understand that Jefferson was soothing the concern of the Baptists over potential government intrusion into church affairs. It hardly matters either way, however. Since when do we base our law on anything other than the Constituion itself, with input from the intents as voiced by the framers? Framers, plural. Not just one man indulging himself in a verbal sweep of the hand.
I want everyone who thinks of separation of church and state as either an actual line in our Constitution (unfortunately there seem to be many) or a missing and necessary link, to consider a few things:
Thomas Jefferson was NOT present during the Constitutional Convention. He was thousands of miles away, serving in Paris as Ambassador to France. His contact with the Convention was through personal letters exchanged with James Madison.
Thomas Jefferson’s response to an concern voiced by the Danbury Baptists was NOT an official communication of Presidential authority (not that it matters, as interpretation falls to SCOTUS, which so ruled that same year, 1803). It was a personal letter.
Based on this, I believe that SCOTUS erred in ruling that a partial phrase, lifted from the worst possible source - one man’s unofficial letter, written by no less than someone personally removed from the actual nitty gritty intimate day-to-day negotiations and perspectives behind what ultimately resulted in the final document we call our Constitution. That Thomas Jefferson’s catchy turn of phrase should be the interpretive lens into our First Amendment is nothing short of appalling. On what basis does Jefferson’s comment carry the day? Why not George Washington, first President? Why not John Adams, second President? It’s faulty logic.
I should have said “that didn’t make it constitutional. My point was that we have passed unconstitutional laws in the past, but the fact a law has not been contested before is not an ipso facto defense of the laws constitutionality. The chaplins in congress are unconstitutional IMO. The phrase “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. 'In God we trust” on the money is unconstitutional. None of these things are going to get challenged or seriously considered by the SCOTUS anythime soon (well, maybe the Pledge will at least get a hearing) and, true enough, they are petty violations and they aren’t going to kill anybody. It’s the same with this “day of prayer” thing. It’s minor, but it’s tacky. It’s the camel’s nose under the tent.
I don’t like it, but I’m not going to waste too much energy fighting over it. It’s not the hill I want to die on. I think I’ll just make sure to eat some Elvis-style peanut butter and bacon sandwiches that day while I’m busy not praying.
I think you’re eating somebody else’s food, dude. Elvis ate fried banana and peanut butter sandwiches.
My mistake. Thanks for the heads up. I wouldn’t want to gorge on the wrong thing on the national day of fasting
You haven’t gotten the revised calender? March 17th is now St. Bush’s Ultimatum Day.
Count me as opposed to praying, fasting, and our government endorsing either.
Bush’s overt religiosity bothers me too. Incidentally, this was the cover story of the Newsweek dated 3/10/03.
If there’s a silver lining to Bush’s Bible belt, it’s probably that it helps keep him sober. (Or is there a mistaken assumption embedded in that statement?)
Grant us victory in battle. Help our Generals to make wise choices. Instill our soldier’s hearts with valor. Let their war cries plant terror in the hearts of the enemy, that he may quail and flee before us.
You know, I prayed for bush pretty much every day when I was in high school. It didn’t do me any good then…
A statute is presumed constitutional; it’s for the challenger thereof to overcome that presumption.
But since you ask:
Supreme Court’s Marsh v. Chambers, 1983 - state and federal legislature chaplains are constitutional.
No Supreme Court ruling on “In God We Trust” on the money, but three federal circuits have ruled the practice constitutional: the Fifth in 1979, the Tenth in 1994, and the Ninth in the seventies (cites on request). Supreme Court declined cert in all three cases.
- Rick
Diogenes is funny. 
Polycarp said, “Eve (and a few others with similar points of view), what is your take on people getting together to pray, as opposed to government requirement or encouragement to do so? My impression was that most atheists held the same POV as gobear – “you believers are welcome to do your thing; just don’t try to get me to join you,” or something quite similar. But I’ve noticed some negativity from some folks on the subject, and I’d like to know more about people’s views on it.”
I’ve got no problem with people getting together to pray. If that’s what does it for them, that’s fine. I think it’s a waste of time, and not particularly productive, but it’s not for me to judge what other people need to make their lives complete.
I think a much better way to spend that time, energy, and focus would be (for instance) to organize letter-writing campaigns for the forces, organize a humanitarian effort for the people of Iraq, spend time at a local mosque to learn more about their religion or to foster better relations with the Arab community, help the families of the servicemen who cannot be there to mend the fence or paint the house, etc., etc. I don’t think you need prayer. You need meetings and organization and delegation and all the things that are necessary to foster change.
NaSultainne
[Moderator Hat ON]
Don’t call people idiots in GD.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
The heck with it - make it a “National Day of Reflection, Meditation, Prayer, Seeking the Inner Light, Finding Your Happy Place, and/or Fasting to Humbly Seek the Wisdom of Whoever Might Be Listening and Willing To Share If He/She/It/They Have the Time Sometime Later Next Week After I Pick The Kids Up From Karate Practice and Heather Has Her Orthodontist Appointment”.
I even put “Reflection” first for the atheists.
Regards,
Shodan
I really wish people wouldn’t trivialize my religious views!
“Eve, it always seems to bother you whenever someone prays.” —and!— “what is your take on people getting together to pray, as opposed to government requirement or encouragement to do so?”
—Pretty much what others have said here (sorry, I’ve been away). I don’t care what people do or how hard they pray, to to whom, or for what. I just resent my government telling me to pray, and inferring that I am not a patriotic American if I fail to do so.
I am all for a day of fasting, though . . . I need to lose about 25 pounds, so a required day of fasting once a week might be a good idea . . .
Maybe “Fast Tuesday”?
Me too. Except when I was watching teen slasher movies. Then I didn’t know whether to pray for bush or for gore.