Backseat Hitmen (Off limits to living Mafia players)

The Game Room
401

About only having one game running at a time:

If the issue is that the games are taking up too many front page slots, maybe it would be better to make a separate games forum for these. Has this been brought up and shot down before and I missed it? It seems these games have already brought on a number of new guests who might become paying members, so it seems like the extra server load might be paid for by having another feature of the boards to bring new members on.

Now that we’ve seen that 20 players is about the ideal number, rather than huge games like Mafia2, I worry that a lot of people who would like to play won’t get a chance to due to the games lasting so long.

402

Much as I like the idea of a “Mob informant” role (in fact, I independantly thought of the idea myself, before reading it here, if you’ll believe that), I just realized that it doesn’t work. The Mafia can figure out who the informant is, with extremely high confidence, and kill em the first night before e has a chance to say anything.

See, every Mafioso knows the (daytime) name of every other Mafioso, but you can’t give that information to the Informant, else the role would be way too powerful. So during the first night, every genuine Mafioso looks at the list, and names the person appearing after emself on the list. The genuine crooks will be able to pass this test effortlessly, but the Informant will have to take a wild guess, without any game information to go on at all. And even if he manages to guess a genuine mobster, that person will almost certainly be named by someone else, so it’d be down to two suspects. Whichever one of those two is the genuine mobster could then pass a second test, by naming who the Godfather is (again, information for which the Informant will have no basis to guess).

This does have the effect of giving the Informant the name of every Mafia member, but he’d never get a chance to use that information, since the next order of business for the Mafia will be to kill him immediately. They go on with planning what to do during the day, or whatever other legitimate business they have, and in the morning, the Informant has the frustration of knowing everything and telling it only to the fishes.

403

[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger]
… We know you’ve been cheering for the town this whole time, though. :wink: Kind of like it’s your own personal little “colony” or something. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

At least he never did the magnifying glass in the Sun trick…

404

[QUOTE=MonkeyMensch]
At least he never did the magnifying glass in the Sun trick…
[/QUOTE]

Or has he?

405

[QUOTE=Chronos]
Much as I like the idea of a “Mob informant” role <snip>
[/QUOTE]

What about a “Mafia Cop”, who’s on the same side as the Mafia, but isn’t told in the beginning who the Mafia are? As the game progresses, they have to try and get townies lynched, armed with only the knowledge they possess through their investigations.

[QUOTE=nesta]
About only having one game running at a time:<snip>
[/QUOTE]

Yes, the moderators/who it may concern have been discussing that. I don’t remember the conclusion, but it was talked about in the Pit thread chrisk linked to. They’re thinking about starting a “Game Forum”, which I think would be pretty cool.

406

And I, for one, welcome our new Game Forum overlords. After consulting with Pygmy Rugger, I’ve just about got my “Good Ship Hispaniola” ready to run… and them that die’ll be the lucky ones!

407

[QUOTE=Chronos]
Much as I like the idea of a “Mob informant” role (in fact, I independantly thought of the idea myself, before reading it here, if you’ll believe that), I just realized that it doesn’t work. The Mafia can figure out who the informant is, with extremely high confidence, and kill em the first night before e has a chance to say anything.

See, every Mafioso knows the (daytime) name of every other Mafioso, but you can’t give that information to the Informant, else the role would be way too powerful. So during the first night, every genuine Mafioso looks at the list, and names the person appearing after emself on the list. The genuine crooks will be able to pass this test effortlessly, but the Informant will have to take a wild guess, without any game information to go on at all. And even if he manages to guess a genuine mobster, that person will almost certainly be named by someone else, so it’d be down to two suspects. Whichever one of those two is the genuine mobster could then pass a second test, by naming who the Godfather is (again, information for which the Informant will have no basis to guess).

This does have the effect of giving the Informant the name of every Mafia member, but he’d never get a chance to use that information, since the next order of business for the Mafia will be to kill him immediately. They go on with planning what to do during the day, or whatever other legitimate business they have, and in the morning, the Informant has the frustration of knowing everything and telling it only to the fishes.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand any of this. Is it taking place on the mafia boards? Then the Informant cannot be compelled to take part, in fact, he will be unable to take part in mafia board discussion as I understand the setup - he or she only has lurker rights on the mafia discussion board.

Even if the Informant was able to post on the mafia board, I still don’t understand how they can force him or her to ‘give themselves away’. They’d probably know, in this case, that a particular username could only be the informant, because it doesn’t match up with the mafia list that they know. They could attempt to identify their snitch based on matching his posting style up with the daytime board. But that’s just a good reason for the Informant to listen only and not speak.

So - what was I missing, that would have made this plan click??

408

Can someone remind me how SBS and storyteller became beyond suspicion? It seems like everyone has just accepted them as confirmed town…

409

Finally got a chance to post here (busy couple days in real life, so I was killed at a convenient time :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I think I started off poorly; I was way too aggressive/noticeable in the beginning. I feel bad that I was the last Mason to survive, since I was the first to claim. Sigh. I tried redeeming myself by laying back and voting more tactically in the last half. I think that helped the Town to some extent.

BTW, I’m on fluiddruid’s list to mod an upcoming game. Not the next one, but the one thereafter. I’ve come up with an interesting ruleset that has no vanilla Townies. Everyone will have some special power, although variable utility. Should be interesting.

Edit: Forgot to add. Can someone pm (or post here) a general explanation or example on how to setup the Mafia-only board?

410

I think that the best/easiest thing to do is set up a google group. The mafia members can email to the group, or go to the board itself to post.

It is very simple to set up. Go to the google home page. Above the search bar you have choices of what google feature you want to look at, click “more” then select groups from the dropdown menu. Follow the steps to set up the group and make sure that it is a private invitation only group so average folk cant just search for the board and read the mafia discussion. Then email an invite to the mafia members.

It is very self explanitory once you find the google groups section.

411

Bloody hell, but the Town is acting stupid. Aren’t any of them concerned with how brewha’s being speed-lynched here? That’s never a good sign.

412

[QUOTE=gonzoron]
Can someone remind me how SBS and storyteller became beyond suspicion? It seems like everyone has just accepted them as confirmed town…
[/QUOTE]
I think that the arguments they put forth over Yesterday (that’s game Yesterday, not calendar yesterday) cleared them in most people’s minds.

I’m a little worried about Storyteller’s vote though - it creates the possibility of a unanimous vote against Brewha, which ends the day on the spot. Whether this is harmful to the Town or not remains to be seen.

While I’m pontificating, NAF, have you checked your email recently?

413

Having watched a couple of games here and played in one, I’d like to recommend the following for the next Mafia game:

  • about 20 players.
    I found it hard to analyse the massive thread that resulted from 39 players in game 2. (After I got killed it became less satisfying to read as well.)

  • use Gadarene’s excellent signature list of rules, roles + players!
    It makes everything so much easier to follow.

  • I don’t think every player needs a power role.
    I was quite happy as a vanilla townie. My job was to post useful analysis and therefore become a victim before a power role townie.

  • No Beat Cops! :eek:
    I think all roles should be clear and useful.

414

[QUOTE=Rysto]
Bloody hell, but the Town is acting stupid. Aren’t any of them concerned with how brewha’s being speed-lynched here? That’s never a good sign.
[/QUOTE]
I’m with you. This stinks to high heaven.

415

[QUOTE=glee]

  • I don’t think every player needs a power role.
    I was quite happy as a vanilla townie. My job was to post useful analysis and therefore become a victim before a power role townie.

  • No Beat Cops! :eek:
    I think all roles should be clear and useful.
    [/QUOTE]

I agree with everythingn you said glee, except these two points. I think that there could be very interesting games where everyone has a power, I don’t think it should be the norm since Vanilla Townie games (I think) are more fun for everyone, but a good game can be had with all power roles.

Also, and I know I am the only one left who thinks this, but the beat cop can be a really good role. I just used it badly. Don’t make my blunder the death of the role.

416

[QUOTE=glee]
Having watched a couple of games here and played in one, I’d like to recommend the following for the next Mafia game:

  • about 20 players.
    I found it hard to analyse the massive thread that resulted from 39 players in game 2. (After I got killed it became less satisfying to read as well.)

  • use Gadarene’s excellent signature list of rules, roles + players!
    It makes everything so much easier to follow.

  • I don’t think every player needs a power role.
    I was quite happy as a vanilla townie. My job was to post useful analysis and therefore become a victim before a power role townie.

  • No Beat Cops! :eek:
    I think all roles should be clear and useful.
    [/QUOTE]

Want to start working on your Mummerset accent now? :smiley:

417

[QUOTE=MHaye]

While I’m pontificating, NAF, have you checked your email recently?
[/QUOTE]

Yes just did, and thanks. I will look into it.

418

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Also, and I know I am the only one left who thinks this, but the beat cop can be a really good role. I just used it badly. Don’t make my blunder the death of the role.
[/QUOTE]

Just out of curiousity, how does is the role different in other games that makes it more useful? Do bad investigations explicitly come back “bad”, instead of a random role?

419

[QUOTE=Rysto]
Just out of curiousity, how does is the role different in other games that makes it more useful? Do bad investigations explicitly come back “bad”, instead of a random role?
[/QUOTE]

Sometimes, not always. It isn’t ever a “useful” role per se, it’s is there to get more information out there without really giving the town an advantage. There are usually 2 beat cops, which I think was my first mistake, I really should have added a second one. Also, there usually isn’t so much misinformation comming from the game itself. But it is still a usefull role if used correctly.

The beat cop role is a confounder, meant to make the game more difficult, what I didn’t realize is that the game was already pleanty difficult without the need for the beat cop. That has to do with the size of the game, which was too big by about 8 people. I think 30 is the absolute upper limit, with 20-25 being ideal for a large game.

I would like to play in a very small game if anyone wants to put together a 7 player or so. Maybe the mods will let us open a second one if we keep it limited to this small number of posters. A 7 player game won’t last all that long.

420

I actually think that the Beat Cop, exactly as implemented in this game, is a good idea, once folks figure out how to use it. It’s just that, as particularly evidenced by everyone’s trust of Lakai right now, folks still haven’t figured out how to use it. It has some uncertainty, and it requires skill and deep thought to use it well, and to my mind, those are always good additions to a game.

And scratch my earlier observation about the Informant. I was thinking for some reason that the Informant’s day name would be on the list given to the Mafia, but of course there’s no reason it has to be. They could probably still neutralize the role through clever disinformation, but that would force them to think about it, which (as I said) I approve of.

Some thoughts, incidentally, on some other possible roles:
The Martyr: Can, on any night, choose to sacrifice emself. If e does so, all other night kills are automatically blocked, regardless of who’s targetted and how. Probably only of significant value in games with multiple night kills, but might also be useful if the Detective is public and the Doctor has just died.

The Schoolteacher: Has been teaching in this town forever, and knows what everyone wanted to be when they grew up. At the beginning of the game, is given a list of every player and a role for each. For those with genuine pro-town special roles, the list is accurate. For vanillas and anti-town roles, the list shows a role selected at random. Would mostly be useful for verifying role claims (unless a Mafia coincidentally happens to claim the role that’s listed for em).

The Medium: Can, with difficulty, communicate with the dead. Once per night, the Medium chooses one dead player, and asks that player a single question. The dead player can respond with a single word answer (usernames are considered to be single words, for this purpose). The dead player is not obligated to answer honestly, so the Medium probably shouldn’t bother asking dead Mafia.