[QUOTE=KlondikeGeoff]
I for one do. When in uniform, we always saluted. When out, those who still love our country show a modicum of respect by standing erect and holding the hand over our heart.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, this rubs me the wrong way. I’m a veteran, too, but to say that I “don’t love my country” because I don’t hold my hand over my heart is fucking bullshit. The song means nothing to me, personally; the principles my country stands for (or at least originally stood for) are what I find important, and they are worthy of my respect and dedication to promoting. Those principles include allowing others to respond as they wish to a (frankly lame) song without branding them America-haters if they don’t react like Pavlovian mutts every time the first bars are played.
Are the rules different for athletes at games, because I’ve seen many sports events where they play the anthem and rarely do the players do the hand over heart thing, and I’ve not heard any complaints, except once when NBA plyaer Chris Jackson didn’t stand. And why is a hat on your disrespectful anway- (seious question).
[QUOTE=SpoilerVirgin]
Really? Really?? You know, I think I’ve finally figured out why this country has such incompetent, criminal leadeership. If people are really choosing their leaders based on this kind of trivial stupidity, then we have the government we deserve . . . I swear I tremble for my country when I reflect that her citizens are morons.
[/QUOTE]
I have to say, I think the one thing Hillary has going for her as a candidate is that she knows this, and she embraces it. More voters will vote based on this kind of asinine bullshit than the technicalities of social security policy, and she knows it. In that battle, the victory goes to the most disciplined and PR-savvy candidate. Witness, for example, the whole campaign song debacle–you catch more morons with superficiality than substance.
[QUOTE=Kitchen Wench]
Geez, we’re all taught in elementary school that one should place his right hand over his heart during the anthem.
How do you feel about this?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe I’ll start an IMHO about this. I was taught to put my hand over my heart for the Pledge of Allegiance but to stand still for the National Anthem.
[QUOTE=Orual]
I’m pretty sure the citizens of all the other countries are pretty much morons too.
You know, if that makes you feel any better.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, but the truth is that most of them are not morons in this particular way. Read any of the threads, or even the mainstream media, on the subject of American patriotism, and particularly reverence for the flag, the Pledge, the anthem, etc. Citizens of almost any other country will tell you that they find it incredibly silly and bizarre that Americans are so obsessed with these symbols.
I’m not some kind of crazy, flag-burning hippie. I consider myself to be very patriotic. I can even sing all four verses of the Star-Spangled Banner. But believing that that has anything to do with a candidate’s qualifications for government is ludicrous, and I doubt that you could find any similar patriotism criteria in other countries (which is not to say that other countries don’t have different but equally silly ways of choosing their leaders).
So how about it, non-U.S. dopers? What do you think of choosing a leader based on his behavior during the playing of the national anthem?
[QUOTE=Plynck]
It’s improper as the Commander in Chief to salute? I’m surprised to hear that, but I guess I’ll have to take your word for it…
[/QUOTE]
See this Op-Ed piece from the New York Times, written by the historian Garry Wills.
"We are reminded, for instance, of the expanded commander in chief status every time a modern president gets off the White House helicopter and returns the salute of marines.
That is an innovation that was begun by Ronald Reagan. Dwight Eisenhower, a real general, knew that the salute is for the uniform, and as president he was not wearing one. An exchange of salutes was out of order."
Even after 12 years in the States, I am still amazed at how widely the national anthem is played here. To me, the greatest disrespect shown it is its overuse; it has become so commonplace. The same has become true of the flag. It seems to have become just another add on, and that isn’t IMHO very respectful.
[QUOTE=Plynck]
It’s improper as the Commander in Chief to salute? I’m surprised to hear that, but I guess I’ll have to take your word for it…
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never been in the military (so this might be way off), but it’s my understanding that you are only supposed to salute a superior officer. As Commander in Chief, you are the most superior officer. Thus, people salute you, not the other way around.
As for the OP, I’ll add myself to the list of people who think this is a ridiculous criticism.
I don’t mind him not wearing the lapel pin, but this is unacceptable. Geez, we’re all taught in elementary school that one should place his right hand over his heart during the anthem.
[/QUOTE]
We were? I’ve never heard of such a thing. I’ve seen people do it, but six years of girl scouts and twelve years of public school never taught me it was a mandatory thing - like properly taking care of a worn flag, not letting the flag touch the ground.
[QUOTE=SpoilerVirgin]
Really? Really?? You know, I think I’ve finally figured out why this country has such incompetent, criminal leadeership. If people are really choosing their leaders based on this kind of trivial stupidity, then we have the government we deserve.
I never post in political threads, because they get so ugly and I’m not particularly comfortable sharing my political views. But this is just too stupid to be ignored. I don’t care who the candidate is, or what party they represent, it can’t possibly be relevant whether or not they put their hand over their heart during the national anthem. It says nothing about their views on war, torture, civil rights, the economy, education, healthcare, or anything else that might actually matter in a political candidate.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I think if this sort of unimportant garbage is what you base your vote upon, you’re too damn stupid to be allowed to vote at all.
[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
I’ve never been in the military (so this might be way off), but it’s my understanding that you are only supposed to salute a superior officer. As Commander in Chief, you are the most superior officer. Thus, people salute you, not the other way around.
[/QUOTE]
Superior, yes, officer, no. The CinC is not a military position, as I’ve been led to understand.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Look, Obama lacks much experience in being in the national spot light. He is going to be prone to these kind of gaffes.
Treat it as you would if Bush had done the same, and I am sure we will get over it just fine.
Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
Except, in the case of Bush, they should have counted against him. Crikey, massaging the German chancellor’s shoulders, talking at a summit meeting with his mouth full, etc. I’m not saying he should have been impeached (not for these anyway), but damn!
Let me ask you something. Do you love your country enough to serve in its governing body? Barack Obama does. Would you choose the tortured path of campaigning and endless fundraising because you love your country? Have you chosen to suffer the vicious insults of newspaper columnists and television mudslingers, just to serve your country?
I love my country, the USA, but not enough to go through that. Senator Obama loves America more than I do. If you haven’t served in the US Senate, Barack Obama probably loves America more than you do, too. So don’t give me that penny-ante crap about hand on heart.
I’m very fond of our flag, which we call Old Glory; I fly mine when I think of it. It’s one of the symbols of the USA. It is only a pretty banner, though. It isn’t holy, so you can never desecrate it. Do you take off your hat when you see a bald eagle? Do you hold your hand over your heart when you see a dollar bill? Of course you don’t, although it bears The Great Seal of the United States of America. It’s only a fancy piece of paper.
When somebody tries to get your dander up over trivia like this, it’s misdirection, to keep you from considering the real issues. Don’t be so easily fooled.