[QUOTE=drm]
Even if he were to retire today, you’d have to take [Suzuki’s] Japanese stats into the equation.
[/QUOTE]
Why? Sadahuru Oh is not in the Hall of Fame. Shouldn’t his Japanese stats and his years in Japan count?
That said, if Suzuki can hang on for another 2 1/2 years without getting too horrible, I’ve no problem with him going in. He’s only 34, so I think the chances are good.
Ichiro has shown how good a ball player he is. He is qualified for sure.331 Life time batting ave. 200 hits year after year.
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
Ichiro has shown how good a ball player he is. He is qualified for sure.
[/QUOTE]
He’s not even eligible.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Sosa has never been seriously linked to steroids (beyond overzealous reporters talking about Sosa and McGwire together because of the HR chase) and his numbers are obviously there.
[/QUOTE]
Other than the changes in his physique and power numbers and his later history of injuries, I agree, there’s not much linking Sosa to steroids.
[QUOTE=Frank]
Why? Sadahuru Oh is not in the Hall of Fame. Shouldn’t his Japanese stats and his years in Japan count?
[/QUOTE]
I’ve got no problem with that whatsoever. I must admit that I’m not exactly an expert, is there no mention of him in the hall at all?
I’m not talking about his stats in Japan. I was just saying for the purpose of this discussion, where I stipulated a 10+ year career, he could be included because of his time served in Japan. I believe his stats in MLB alone will get him in when he’s eligible. He’s a bit of an anomaly, but I think he belongs on the list.
And Sadahuru Oh isn’t a current MLB player… 
[QUOTE=Marley23]
Other than the changes in his physique and power numbers and his later history of injuries, I agree, there’s not much linking Sosa to steroids.
[/QUOTE]
So because he hit a lot of home runs he’s suspect?
And Sammy Sosa has always had a history of injuries and he radically changed his batting stance before he began piling up the home runs.
As I said, there’s nothing that links him to steroids other than overzealous people wanting to link every high profile slugger to steroids.
Reread my post and I think you’ll see you didn’t address the most important point.
Braves fan here -
C. Jones will make it. A switch-hitting 3rd baseman who was the pivotal batter in his team’s run of 14 divisional championships. The only switch hitters with more homers - just two guys named Mantle and Murray.
A name I have not seen mentioned - John Smoltz. 150+ career saves, 200+ career victories, 3,000 strikeouts, 15 post-season wins. First, a dominant starter, then he went all Dennis Eckersley on the NL for 4 seasons, then BACK to being a dominant starter. He’s a lock in my opinion.
Smoltz was listed in Post #3
Not proof , but still…
Do you honestly think Sosa never juiced? Not being snarky, just a serious question.
That link isn’t working for me, Southern Yankee.
Hmm. Works for me. Sorry, here’s the url:
http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/sammy-sosa-comparison.jpg
Not working for me, either time. Anyway, I think I get the point given the url, and I’m not sure about the validity of the argument: “Gee, it really looks like he took steroids.”
Tell me about it, Bro. – Mark McGwire
I’m using Firefox. When I tried the URL in IE7 I got the 404 error. Sorry!
I’m on Firefox as well, so I don’t think that’s it.
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee]
Do you honestly think Sosa never juiced? Not being snarky, just a serious question.
[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t. I think when all is said and done, he’ll be considered clean and will be a quick selection for the Hall.
And as for his physical changes, I don’t see it…
3 or 2? I’m on 3. If anyone is interested, just Google “Sammy Sosa comparison photos” and it’ll be the first image.
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee]
I guess there has been a drought of 3rd Basemen. He has 1 MVP, but only 1 other Top 5. That doesn’t seem that dominant to me.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I accept the validity of “Number of MVPs > 1” as a useful measure of a player’s dominance. Derek Jeter, who I grimly admit is a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer, never won an MVP at all.
Chipper Jones isn’t a borderline case, in my opinion, at least. He should get in easily, and probably will. As a hitter he’s not dissimilar to Alex Rodriguez, actually; the latter has a bit more power and Chipper has a bit better on base ability. He’ll most likely get to 500 home runs; he only needs to play until he’s 40 and average 25 home runs a year to do it, and there’s no reason to expect that this would be impossible. Among third basemen all-time, only Rodriguez has a higher career slugging percentage; only John McGraw, Wade Boggs, Bill Joyce, and Denny Lyons have higher career on-base percentages (and three of those guys played some or all of their careers during the William McKinley administration).
The other no-doubters, at least if I had a vote, which of course, I don’t:
Maddux
Jeter
Alex Rodriguez
Rivera
Griffey, Jr.
And, for me, at least, very strong options:
Thome
Randy Johnson
Glavine
Frank Thomas
Ivan Rodriguez
Schilling
Pedro Martinez
Manny Ramirez
Not sure:
Kent
Vladimir Guerrero
Smoltz
Jorge Posada (I don’t know how you call I-Rod a mortal lock and ignore Posada altogether)
Leaning No:
Hoffman
Todd Helton (but it’s a modest lean)
Mussina
Incomplete, Check Back Later:
Pujols
Berkman
Roy Halladay
Posada is a very good catcher, but not a HOFer IMO (and I’m a Yankee fan.) He’s better than average offensively, but not defensively. I think you need Piazza-like offensive numbers if you’re not an excellent defensive catcher, like Ivan Rodriguez has been.
