[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop]
Would you like to work for the Blue Jays?
I guess the home-run he hit doesn’t count…
[/QUOTE]
Of course his homeruns count, but that’s all he does, besides strikeout and occupy space in left field.
Dunn makes far too much money to be a Red anymore.
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Of course his homeruns count, but that’s all he does, besides strikeout and occupy space in left field.
Dunn makes far too much money to be a Red anymore.
[/QUOTE]
As opposed to Griffey who’s production make him a bargain.
Dunn has limitations, but he is still a very good player, and very much not the problem with the Reds. Along with hitting a ton home-runs (which aren’t just good, but the best thing a hitter can do), he also is very good at getting on base. In other words he is very good at not getting out, and in a world where you are limited to 27 outs that is a very valuable skill. Strikouts are bad, but not any worse than any other kind of out. They won’t advance runners, but they also won’t turn into double plays, which more or less evens out.
I’ll throw in Fernando Tatis with Chavez. I’m sure I can convince Story to agree. You will have your very own platoon!
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Bonds would be a good player for any AL team with a weak DH **except ** he brings a chaotic news circus with him that could disrupt a team. I would pass on this problem.
[/quote]
I would give this theory a lot more credence if Bonds and his chaotic news circus didn’t manage to drag a sequence of mediocre San Francisco teams to 90+ wins for five straight years through 2004. Then Bonds got hurt, taking his media circus to the DL with him, and the team dropped promptly from 91 wins to 75. Now, admittedly, the Giants were really bad in 2006 and 2007, even with Bonds. But I defy you to look at the rosters of those teams and say the problem had anything to do with any news circus or personality issue: the 2007 team gave 1300+ at bats to three guys who, if you added their OPS+ scores together, barely produced the 170 Bonds produced.
So really, I don’t think the idea that Bonds would “disrupt a team” in a way that would actually affect wins and losses is anything but speculation.
This, more than anything, is a fair argument. You could argue that the PR hit a team would take would hurt it in the long run, particularly if it’s a team that’s currently getting good press (Tampa Bay). But this has nothing to do with on-field play; Tampa Bay might suffer overall as a franchise from putting Bonds at DH, but they’d still win more games in 2008.
Meh. Manny Ramirez is a bad left fielder. The Mets are, as I mentioned, running Endy Chavez and Moises Alou out there every day. The defensive loss going from Tatis, who is not a natural left fielder, is negligible; the offensive gain would be tremendous. On balance, again, it would produce more wins.
As a Yankee fan and an AL East observer, I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can think that. Tampa would absolutely make sense. Their DH situation is horrible right now; it’s stiffs like Johnny Gomes and injury magnets like Cliff Floyd. I’ve said this before, but replace Gomes/Floyd with Bonds right now and the Rays probably win the East, and probably it’s not even close.
The Yankees would make plenty of sense. Both of their corner outfielders are hurt. They’re giving at bats to AAA players who aren’t even prospects. Jorge Posada is going to end up on the DL again, and at that point your primary DH is going to be Wilson Betemit. I can’t even guess at the difference between Wilson Betemit and Barry Bonds, but I’m thinking it’s significant.
Toronto makes sense, except their GM doesn’t like guys who walk or hit home runs, so I guess they’re out. Minnesota’s DH is Jason Kubel. Texas could probably get into serious contention with Bonds taking the at bats that are currently going to Marlon Byrd, Frank Catalanotto, and Brandon Boggs (they’re only 6.5 back right now, which surprised me to learn).
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Of course his homeruns count, but that’s all he does, besides strikeout and occupy space in left field.
[/quote]
Adam Dunn leads the league in walks. Every last one of those walks is a baserunner, a chance to score if his teammates do their jobs, and not an out, which is the most important thing of all. He’s hitting a terrible .220 or so, sure, but his OBP is still near .400. I’d predict, if I were a predicting man, that he’ll eventually get his average up closer to .245 or so, which will push his OBP over .400 and near to the league leaders.
And there are two - two - players in the entire National League with more home runs.
Good Lord, I’d pay a week’s salary to get Adam Dunn in right and Barry Bonds in left, for all the defensive woes my team would have. It wouldn’t matter, because we’d score 15 runs a game.
Now for something completely different.
Story,
Who is this other Reyes and where did he come from?
I stand corrected on his fielding, it is not as bad as I thought.
As to the Yanks, Damon and Matsui are both due back. I don’t see a situation where Bonds fits the Yanks. If they were both down for the year, I might agree.
As to Tampa, I think you would seriously hurt the team chemistry they have going right now, but maybe it would be worth it anyway as their bullpen will eventually falter and bring them down. So Bonds might be enough added offense to prop them up.
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop]
Who is this other Reyes and where did he come from?
[/QUOTE]
He comes from the Dominican Republic, surprise surprise. He was at AAA New Orleans a week ago and under the radar as far as I know. I guess the Mets have given up on Anderson Hernandez. (Who’s below the Mendoza Line in AAA at the moment.)
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Meh. Manny Ramirez is a bad left fielder. The Mets are, as I mentioned, running Endy Chavez and Moises Alou out there every day.
[/QUOTE]
What’s wrong with Endy’s fielding? It’s his patience at the plate I worry about. And the Mets have run Alou out there for just 15 games this season. (Anybody remember Angel Pagan? It’s been a bad year to be a Mets outfielder.)
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Goddamit! A wasted effort by the rookie Johnny Cueto, yet again.
Fuck you, Adam Dunn. You should have caught that ball, it would have changed the complexion of the game. Worthless double-digit payroll eating slacker machine.
[/QUOTE]
I was there! 
I had a great view, perched high above left field in section 403.
You are absolutely correct, that was some really remarkably piss-poor fielding (though he did actually make a nice play later in the game). And I have to say it was nice to see old pal Corey Patterson and his .193-and-falling batting average again. He looks so much better in the other dugout!
[QUOTE=Ichbin Dubist]
He comes from the Dominican Republic, surprise surprise. He was at AAA New Orleans a week ago and under the radar as far as I know. I guess the Mets have given up on Anderson Hernandez. (Who’s below the Mendoza Line in AAA at the moment.)
[/quote]
I literally had no idea the man existed until last night, driving home late and turning on the game. I was going nuts trying to figure out how the hell Jose Reyes ended up playing second base. Did they trade for Miguel Tejada or something?
Nothing’s wrong with Endy’s fielding. He just can’t hit, at least, not well enough to be a useful regular. And I meant to say “Endy Chavez and Fernando Tatis.” Sorry for the confusion.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Nothing’s wrong with Endy’s fielding. He just can’t hit, at least, not well enough to be a useful regular. And I meant to say “Endy Chavez and Fernando Tatis.” Sorry for the confusion.
[/QUOTE]
Right. …and Marlon Anderson, and Chris Aguila, and Trot Nixon (who didn’t last long). It hard to imagine the Mets are going to put the hurt on the Phillies with so many bench players playing full-time for so long.
The Argenis Reyes thing argues that the Mets’ system is not too strong on infielders. I guess if Delgado goes down we’ll see Mike Carp. I guess if Wright or Jose Reyes goes down they’ll just send Omar down to the DR and start signing everyone named “Reyes.” The only other infielder on the 40-man roster is Anderson Hernandez, a slick fielder hitting .180-something in New Orleans. Which is shortsighted, considering that Castillo is a such a gimpy old guy.
As an aside, a Cubs/Rays series would be great.
[QUOTE=Ichbin Dubist]
I guess if Delgado goes down we’ll see Mike Carp.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure that would be a downgrade.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I stand corrected on his fielding, it is not as bad as I thought.
As to the Yanks, Damon and Matsui are both due back. I don’t see a situation where Bonds fits the Yanks. If they were both down for the year, I might agree.
[/QUOTE]
Damon should be back soon. I think getting anything from Matsui this year is wishful thinking though.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
As to Tampa, I think you would seriously hurt the team chemistry they have going right now,
[/QUOTE]
I’m curious as to how you think this will have a tangible effect on team performance. Will the other players try less hard? Workout less? Listen to instruction less?
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop]
Damon should be back soon. I think getting anything from Matsui this year is wishful thinking though.
[/QUOTE]
News to me, he is in Tampa swinging off the tee. I have hopes he’ll be back in August.
Do you believe in team chemistry? It sounds like you do not. I will pass on this argument in this thread if you just want to debate the existence of team chemistry as a positive factor.
The Mets hopefully are worrying more about bolstering their bullpen than the outfield.
You could score 10 runs a game and not be safe with that bunch in relief. Like, well like the other night. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop]
I’m curious as to how you think this will have a tangible effect on team performance. Will the other players try less hard? Workout less? Listen to instruction less?
[/QUOTE]
I’d see it as the young players on that team having to deal with the constant, “Do you think he really did steriods?” The constant surrounding of the team by ESPN. The players who instead of their game winning hit being in the news the next morning will see yet more coverage of Barry Bonds.
[QUOTE=dalej42]
I’d see it as the young players on that team having to deal with the constant, “Do you think he really did steriods?” The constant surrounding of the team by ESPN. The players who instead of their game winning hit being in the news the next morning will see yet more coverage of Barry Bonds.
[/QUOTE]
I feel like Hawk and I are tag-teaming in this thread, but nonetheless:
OK. So let’s say I grant you that those things will happen. Here is my question, and it’s flatly stated.
Do you think that, let’s say, B.J. Upton will hit fewer home runs and steal fewer bases as a result of this?
OK, I can’t wish this debate away.
Yes, I think throwing a scumbag, negative media magnet likes Bonds on a young team like Tampa would be a distraction that would make the team play worse.
Some of the players will stress out a little more and be more tense at the plate or on the field. It might break down that can do feeling the team has going. It might have a few players think all they have to do is setup Barry. There are dozens of hard to define “little things” that can affect a baseball team that is functioning well.
Jim
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Adam Dunn leads the league in walks. Every last one of those walks is a baserunner, a chance to score if his teammates do their jobs, and not an out, which is the most important thing of all. He’s hitting a terrible .220 or so, sure, but his OBP is still near .400. I’d predict, if I were a predicting man, that he’ll eventually get his average up closer to .245 or so, which will push his OBP over .400 and near to the league leaders.
And there are two - two - players in the entire National League with more home runs.
Good Lord, I’d pay a week’s salary to get Adam Dunn in right and Barry Bonds in left, for all the defensive woes my team would have. It wouldn’t matter, because we’d score 15 runs a game.
[/QUOTE]
I know about the walks. I don’t hate Adam Dunn per se, but if you notice his RBI’s when compared to his HR’s, you’ll notice an alarming lack of RBI’s…because Dunn hits a lot of solo shots (not really his fault, btw) at meaningless points in games. And Dunn’s defense absolutely stinks, and his arm is average at best (which is puzzling for a former college QB).
To me, he’s like Chad Johnson…racks up a ton of ultimately meaningless stats that don’t translate into wins because of his own liabilities coupled with the woes of the rest of the team.
The Reds (I think) have the worst combined BA in the NL in their outfield, between Dunn, Griffey, Bruce and the awesome sprinkling in of Patterson. What is it with Dusty Baker and Corey Patterson? Does Patterson have some pictures of Baker in a compromising position or something? For the love of God, please end this man-crush, Dusty!
The Reds are starting to get their pitching act together, and now their offense has utterly dried up. Another woeful year for Reds fans (whom are dwindling away due to over a decade of ineptitude).
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
I know about the walks. I don’t hate Adam Dunn per se, but if you notice his RBI’s when compared to his HR’s, you’ll notice an alarming lack of RBI’s…because Dunn hits a lot of solo shots (not really his fault, btw) at meaningless points in games.
[/quote]
I’m not a huge Adam Dunn fan, but he’s averaged 100 RBIs a year the past four seasons, which is still pretty good production. His fellow (non) hitters are part of the problem.