Ricardo Montalbon said of Kahn and ‘the best villians’ “They believe they are in the right.”
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I think the XO of the Pegusus is going to be instrumental in resolving the standoff. I definitely see a Crimson Tide scenario in part 2.
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Is there any doubt that part 2 will end with a disgraced Cain crashing the Pegusus into the unknown Cylon ship?
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Haven’t we already determined that the Cylons are perfectly willing to undergo all sorts of torture and beatings (with a smile) at the hands of the hu-mons in order to manipulate them.
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Is Cain really that wrong? I mean those two did KILL an officer. Maybe death is a little severe, but they certainly aren’t blameless here.
Yeah, I think so. They didn’t get a trial by court martial, nor legal representation, nor an appeal. She heard both sides of the story and sentenced them to death herself.
So what do people think the mystery ship is?
A friend of mine has a theory that this episode is somehow ‘a dream’ or a sim or something. Trek and Moore have done this befor. I don’t think they are going to keep the Pegasus around but I don’t think they will have it vanish again like the BSGOS.
Could be. Or possibly she volunteered the information. “I’m a cylon. There are others. You have no way of knowing who they are. Neener neener neener.”
Oh well. It doesn’t matter in the long run. The show doesn’t stand or fall on niggling details like this.
look at it from Adamas point of veiw,
We have a cylon prisoner on board, shes been very co-operative with intel and some other problems we have had, (yeah I know not an exact quote)
Cain, yeah well ours has been playing cum dumpster for pretty much the entire male crew but for some reason no help with anything.
she sent the “interrigator” to Galactica knowing full well they were only there to start raping some fresh meat. there was no intent of questioning or anything else.
Adama finds out what went on After the Cheif and Helo gank the interrigator and are already in flight back to pegasus.
His prisoner, his crew, possibly even more important the Cheif is the Only crew cheif left in the entire frakin universe.
the bitch is bonkers.
I cant remember if Roslin is still on Galactica, if so I expect thats where Adama is headed at the end of the ep.
As Critical1 remarked, the torture of someone is not a reflection of the deeds of the victim, but of the torturer. In fact, any act is a reflection on the instigator more than the recipient. The talk about how bad P-Six is, snapping the neck of a baby, reminds me of the series finale of MASH*, where Hawkeye’s insanity is due to his refusal to accept that a woman killed her baby rather than have the enemy discover a bus full of people. P-Six needs to be tried for war crimes and the rapists tried for rape. I wonder what the female contingent of Pegasus thinks of all this.
It’s cliche, but I liked the contrast between Adama’s warm personal office/quarters and Cain’s metallic impersonal one.
I liked when we first see Baltar and B-Six stunned and we only see P-Six reflected in the cell’s window.
Cain’s launching of Vipers seems logical considering her viewpoint of the Galactica. They have a trusted enemy; they allow fraternizing with it; they allow mutinous actions; they allow punching of officers; they allow a drunk XO. Knowing that, if Galactica launched towards you, wouldn’t you feel you’ve got to take control of this insane situation?
Baltar’s soliloquy to P-Six seems to indicate he’s more and more believing B-Six is in his imagination. I liked the way he asked her to leave and she was just gone in the next shot. On the other hand, in the series premiere, we saw Baltar and Six blasted when the nukes hit Caprica. So I still wonder if Baltar is a Cylon. Maybe he’s the male counterpart of Six. On the third hand, if Baltar is human and B-Six really wants to mess with him, she could talk to the Cylons and they could create a Cylon Baltar. Meeting up with himself would rock his world.
Critical1’s response was the canned generic response to the issue that she/he assumed would be raised. It is reflective of the general problem of having a bag of tools in one’s intellectual arsenal, and presuming that people are always asking the easy question for which one of your tools serves as a convenient answer.
But no one here that I know of was giving the stereotypical, feminist’s dream statement of, “She deserved to be raped and abused because she did something wrong herself.”
Instead, the far more interesting, and valid question, is how someone who has herself perpetrated such horrible attrocities can with a straight face be righteously indignant when something bad happens to “her.” It’s not the issue that everyone was trained to answer in their college gender studies class. Instead, the question is, how believable is someone’s outrage when they are outraged at acts similar to or even less offensive than those they themselves recently took part of.
In which case, they’re going to have to strap a flashlight to his chest so that he’ll always have a light shining upward into his face.
well the subject was under disscusion, its popped up several times before my post and people seem to be thinking along the lines of “she did bad stuff so she has no right to coment when it happens to her twin”
shes a Cylon, a created race made to be slaves who from her perspective has suffered countless atrocities at the hands of mankind, her efforts under what can only be described as a wartime scenario (from the cylon perspective) arent anything anyone wouldnt do given similiar circumstances. well except for killing the baby, but I seriously think that was only in the pilot to pump up the “Evil” aspect of the cylons, the story is after all about humans on the run from extinction.
and being raped by quite possibly hundreds of men isnt even something I can begin to imagine. thats not war, its not interrigation, its not even torture, I dont know what it is but it certainly goes along way towards demonstrating the cylon veiw that humans are incredibly brutal and inherantly evil.
look at the Galactica crews treatment of the cylons,
1 tortured to try and find a possible nuke, then shot out an airlock,
1 shot by a tramatized crew member after she shot the Comander AND almost got the Chief killed as well.
almost forgot the one Adama killed in hand to hand combat
and then when Mama Boomer proves shes willing to help (and has helped) the humans Roslin changes her mind from “put that thing out the airlock” to “have them bring that young woman to me” (or something close to that)
we are supposed to see the Pegasus crew as seriously fraked up on virtually every level. in the brief time given to the episode they chose to go with the truly horrific. just try and empithise with P6.
that was supposed to be
Just try and empithise with P6 for a minute. shes literally a sex toy, like a really lifelike blow up doll, Cylon or not she has human emotions and similar thought processes.
(damn roomates talking and stuff)
I don’t have a problem with Six having done evil things and yet being shocked at how P6 was treated. I just think she’s jerking Baltar around for some Cylonic reason.
She beat the snot out of Boomer to set the stage for Helo without feelings, for example.
Fair enough. I just did not think you were commenting on the actual issue raised. I think you attacked it better in what you wrote below.
There’s the seeming enjoyment of psychologically torturing Baltar (assuming that is actually Six). There is the known enjoyment of physically toying with people, beating the shit out of them in fights when she could have simply ended it. There’s the baby factory stuff, being complicit with organ harvesting. It’s not a small list of things that she has done that would be considered atrocities. Also bare in mind that the biggest atrocity was committed during a peace treaty, not during the war.
In gauging the reactions of the version of Number Six that hangs around with Baltar, bear in mind that she may not even exist except as a figment of Gaius’ fevered imagination. Perhaps that’ll finally be resolved next season.
And perhaps pigs will fly FTL.
This is true, but I’m more interested in Baltar’s non-incredulous reaction to her, which is odd regardless of whether or not she is actually real (as Baltar believes that she is, or at least believes something with respect to her).
As an aside, perhaps Baltar is now explaining her appearances as evidence that he has fallen in love (he is obviously attempting to rationalize or figure out why he sees her). This would explain the, “Think about her every day,” comment to the abused Six in a slightly different light.
That’s your question. Mine was, “In what context should someone be judged?” In answer to your question, I don’t know what P-Six’s outrage may or may not be. My point was to note that each act has a context and should be evaluated in context. What context? Instead of evaluating an act in the victim’s context, I try to look at evaluating the act in the society’s context. I would evaluate a Nazi’s acts under the world’s view not their own viewpoint.
It seems like the Pegasus is a bit of The Lord of the Flys in that they have been removed from their normal civilization and have to create a new one, but I submit that they are not so far removed from civilization that rape is deemed interrogation. So interrogation is not its context. It appears to me to be a way to exact revenge against the Cylons in general and not P-Six (and now Boomer) explicitly. We don’t know P-Six’s history. She could be a merciless Cylon acting a victim to see how Galactica’s humans react to such outrages. She could be the original human model on which Six was based and they caught her instead of a Cylon-Six.
I noticed a problem with context when Pegasus showed up. Adama had been letting mutiny, assaults, and drunkeness/drug-abuse slide because he needed to keep their small world of humans together. When “the fleet” showed up, their world grew. He could see that the chain of command was imperative. But when he saw his people mistreated he had to choose a new course. If Cain ends up in control, Adama should be brought up on charges. If Adama wins, he makes the rules. The winner writes history.
But when Adama’s back in charge, he needs to choose between bringing his crew back to a more disciplined and military style so that they don’t devolve into a rag-tag air force; or he’ll see that this fleet needs its military just the way it is.
Starbuck.
Should Cally then be charged with murder and tried?