No. Bear is comparable to a writer for the show. We all know that anything that happens onscreen is because the writers wrote it, and the director choose various technical means to bring those words to life. We suspend our disbelief to accept that the characters say and feel what they appear to say and feel. The characters do not acknowledge and/or react to the poundy drums or other elements of the score, so those elements don’t break the illusion. Certain characters have acknowledged and reacted to** All Along the Watchtower.** Therefore, that specific element of our world also exists in their world. It needs to be explained in a way that ties in with other elements of the story.
And you know what? Bob Dylan gets royalties from NBC Universal for the use of his composition. He’s just like a writer for the show.
Would a musician who can explain things to non musicians explain how this Macready person can say that the music used on the show is not All Along the Watchtower?
[hijack]Regarding small populations and genetics: thirty thousand would be at the knife-edge of genetic viability if the population stayed at that size. This has happened in the Pacific where isolated groups of islanders simply didn’t have enough room or resources to expand. However it’s plenty big for a founders group if succeeding generations can increase; I’ve seen suggestions that ~1 million might be the minimum size for maintaining a population indefinitely.
We now return to your regularly scheduled thread[/hijack]
No, I had no idea. I thought we flew here in shiny metal cans. Thank god you were here to remind me about evolution.
:rolleyes:
No need for condescension. I assumed that BSG was meant to be in the far future with a shared history with us, evidenced by the renewed worship of the Greek gods. I don’t know if that’s true or not. It’s not clear to me, and I don’t think you’ve got enough evidence to assume you’re right and I’m wrong. You certainly don’t have any reason to insult my intelligence by reminding me that we didn’t fly here on spaceships.
Ditto to you about condescension. You can argue all you want, but it still bothers me. Using a Bob Dylan song and attributing it to Sam Anders breaks my willing suspension of disbelief in a way that Admiral Adama using a pen and speaking English does not. (I thought Anders was given credit for writing it in the ep where the Final Five talk about their memories of Earth, and Tory said he wrote it for a girl he loved.) There is a real, qualitative difference between using a pen and speaking English, and attributing a well-known song to one of your characters, or removing its authorship from the known author. If it doesn’t bother you, that’s great. You can’t argue someone out of not liking something. I’m not sure if you realize that, but there it is.
You can not like anything you want. I’m just telling you that the writers don’t owe you an explanation that would make fictional facts consistent with real facts.
Where did you get the idea that I thought Ron Moore “owed” me anything? He can do whatever he wants, and I can think what I want of his decisions. I think it’s stupid, lazy writing if it doesn’t have an explanation. I’m sure he doesn’t give a damn. But I’m not discussing this with Ron Moore, am I? I’m discussing it on a message board, where we discuss our opinions. That’s mine, and it’s just as valid as yours, something that doesn’t really come across in your posts. That is all.
You holding that opinion does not make it so. You accuse me of fanwanking. You’re doing the same thing, in the opposite direction.
I wasnt trying to be condescending, although I can see it being read that way. At best this is an alternate reality.
as for their choice in music, tv/movies have been using music to capture or project a mood since they began, using a popular tune is done because of its track record. there is no mystery here why they chose that particular song. I get the feeling you are reading way to much into that choice.
Especially when it makes you say things like:
…eeeeexcept that one I’ve heard before because Bob Dylan wrote it in 1967, and one is a song I’ve never heard because it was expressly written for the purpose of the show, and can be given any meaning the writers wish, since it did not previously have any associations outside the show. Believing that “All Along the Watchtower” is a song written by a Cylon does require suspension of disbelief. It strains mine, it doesn’t strain acsenray’s. Groovy. None of us knows if it will be addressed or not, so maybe this whole discussion is moot. I hope so.
Maybe it’s an alternate reality, maybe it’ll be explained. We don’t know. In TV/movies, usually songs are not reassigned to authors other than their real authors. It’s weird. I’m not reading anything into it, it just bugs me, OK?
I wonder how many ships in the fleet are capable of landing on an Earth-type planet. We know Colonial One is; can’t remember if we saw any other ships on the ground on New Caprica.
Raptors and Vipers can land, too.
Yeah, but I was thinking about the ships with industrial capacity. At least some of the ships definitely look like they’re not suitable for entering an atmosphere.
We saw a number of ships on the ground - don’t remember the details.
Quite a few are capable of landing. That was the point of Athena going undercover on New Caprica to swipe the launch keys from the Cylons so that the rest of the fleet could escape.
There are also a sizeable number unable to make planetfall – those were the ships that had been in orbit at New Caprica, and jumped away with Galactica and Pegasus. Presumably they’d include things like the tyllium ship and the botanical cruiser.
I’m thinking Galactica herself could land - once - and she ain’t gonna relaunch if she does.
We also saw these big landers that accompanied the raptors entering Earth’s atmosphere.
I don’t know if Galactica can emergency land or not. She’s a huge ship and I don’t know if she’s designed to take her entire weight on her ventral side. And now she’s riddled with stress fractures- if she could land she’d crumple into wreckage.
One thing that muddies the question is that the RTF seemed to be able to hover in Ragnarok’s upper atmosphere. But in the great New Caprica bug-out, we clearly saw some ships using thrusters to lift off the ground. So I don’t know if any of the ships not designed to land could settle to the ground or not. (It’s a sure bet that one ship with the rotating ring can’t!)
The word “owe” was used by Oakminster.
I’m pretty sure the Final Fivers said that Anders merely sang the song for someone he loved. I don’t recall him getting any credit for writing it.
I find the ongoing Watchtower discussion facinating. I’m not ticked off or anything, but I’m on Rubystreak’s side on this. By RDM’s admission, the song was a deliberate choice that would make us ask questions. Those questions deserve to be addressed and hopefully answered. I can live with it Bob Dylan didn’t write the song (or even exist) in the Galactica-verse, but I’m not satisfied with it just being a song choice on the level of McCreary writing an original song for the show. Bob Dylan (his royalities aside) is not a writer for the show. This crosses a line that pens and Hummers and corded phones don’t.
Roslin’s use of the phrase “Pound of Flesh” in Season 2’s “The Captain’s Hand” took me out of the show too. I’m going to have to live with the fact that Moore & Co. aren’t going to neatly explain a Shakespeare quote in this universe. Especially since it was just one line. Considering the weight of Watchtower and it’s value in the overall mythology of the show, I’m hoping for more than that.
BTW, How does Joe’s bar work? Does anyone ‘pay’ for a drink. Does Joe just run stills all day? I’d think that with limited supplies in the fleet, and folks like Kara running around, Joe would be running out of booze on a regular basis. Anyone care to fanwank a story for Joe’s bar?
I thin she did it to remove suspicion- she’d have to explain to Helo why she didn’t want to… it was easier to frak him and move on.