You know, it occurs to me… Romo had his dog with him. This may mean that our modern dogs… are space-dog descendants.
:eek:
(thankfully, someone killed his cat before it could’ve gotten here and bred!)
The Wrath of Kahn has better music than BSG.
It is very cold in space.
Liar. We got the original series score on the into-the-sun shot, we got the great Adama Theme pipes again, and “All Along the Watchtower”, of course. Win: BSG.
Wrath of Khan has Ricardo Montalban with plastic pecs. BSG had EJO throwing up on himself. Tossup, there, I’d say.
I must also add my vote to those who thought this was a great ending to BSG. The various unanswered questions got answered (sorry for those who don’t like the answers). Now we know why the previous episodes were so skimpy on the special effects! The first half of tonight’s finale had some of best effects in the series. The ramming of the Cylon base was foreshadowed by Hera playing with the toy ships two episodes ago. The BSG mythos has retained its mysticism with the angels angle. The connection of the Opera House dream to the Galactica was genius. It was a gas to see the old Centurions and to hear the old BSG theme. Contrary to my expectations none of the major characters died in battle, which is kind of unrealistic, but I can live with it. The final bit with the “Eve” connection was superfluous, but fine with me. I only wished that Roslin could’ve died sitting on her idyllic spot watching the sun slowly set. To just drift away on a raptor was a bit underwhelming. Overall, this finale was a fit ending to a great series.
I liked it. It wasn’t perfect, but it was pretty damned good.
The action, and the FX, in the first half of the episode were pretty awesome. And, when the Final Five went to mind-meld, and Ellen says, “we’ll all know everything about each other,” I said to my wife, “this can’t end well.” 
The body count, among the major characters, was far lower than I expected it to be. With the exception of Roslyn and Sam, everyone who died pretty much had it coming (Tori, Boomer, Cavil, the rest of the bad Cylons).
I found myself feeling very sad for Apollo at the end. In the past few months, he’s lost his wife, his father, and his lover, and he winds up on this new world, very alone.
My wife was complaning about Helo dying (because the last we saw was him bleeding in the corridor, and we assumed he had bought it)…and, when they show him walking in the meadow with Athena and Hera, she was overjoyed that he hadn’t died.
The polygraph test reminded me of the empathy test used to detect replicants in Bladerunner. Perhaps a nod to EJO’s earlier adventure involving “skinjobs”? (Another little gift for the fans? Must ignore how the pigeon’s escape into sunlight reminded me of the dove who flew from Roy Batty’s hand as he died…)
I hadn’t watched the show until just before this half-season began. Spoiled myself all over the internet, caught a marathon & then enjoyed the heck out of the show. Now–time to buy some DVD’s & begin…
Huh. See, I thought that he was finally happy, for the first time in a long time. He’d never wanted to be in the military (reinforced in the flashback), he’d been planning on leaving when the Colonies fell, then was trapped having to stay in the military in the fleet, had a marriage that turned out unhappy, had that fracking awful unrequited love mess with Kara, finally drifted into politics but never looked happy doing that…
Really, him talking about exploring was the first time we’d seen him happy since his last date with Dee. His attitude toward his father’s leaving seemed bittersweet, and it seemed he made his peace with Kara’s disappearance.
I was just annoyed that was the last we saw of him. Hell, even Romo Lampkin and the damn dog showed up again!
I though it was a great finale. . .and the question is still open for me, something I though about a long time ago: all this FTL jumping around. . .did they essentially go back in time a few hundred thousand years, to find Earth at the beginning of civilization that would eventually lead out to the stars and FTL travel, leading back in time again, etc. etc. etc.? I mean, what are the chances of landing on a planet and finding a primitive version of essentially your own race, genetically compatible and everything, that evolved completely independently? I suppose with the mysticism invoked here, one never knows. . . But I’ve always thought that would provide a tidy explanation to the “this has all happened before and will happen again” deal – a time loop caused by FTL travel. I think I’ve seen some scorn thrown at this idea here and there, but I do think given the finale that this will be the explanation I stick with, and I’m happy enough with it. Feel free to explain why, if you think it sucks or doesn’t work.
I’ll +1 this one.
BSG has always been about the people. People in a really cool venue, with lots of nifty gadgets, but the core of all the stories has been “who are these folks, and why do they do the things they do, to each other especially?” And that core was wrapped up very nicely tonight, with everyone given an ending that was right for them and right for the show.
And a bunch of people here are seeing H2G2 in the influences - OTOH I saw Head Six and Head Baltar walking down the street in NYC and thought GOOD OMENS!!! C’mon, Tricia Helfer and James Callis would make a fairly awesome Aziraphale and Crowley.
The Baltar-angel and the Caprica-angel explicitly say in the end scene that there were two different Earths, and Kobol, and the Colonies. And that what all happened before might all happen again – which were they in a closed timeloop, would be a certainty, not possibility.
Additionally, throughout the entire series there has been absolutely no woo-woo science like time travel, nor any hint of such, nor even any maundering that it might be a possibility.
There have been characters commenting on the existence of a god, or God, or whatever it likes to be called. Many, many viewers did not like hearing that, and choose to believe woo-woo theories so they don’t have to acknowledge that when those characters were talking about a god, or God, or whatever, that was really what was going on, and that was what was causing stuff to happen. So when Baltar – who is one of those persons who’d been talking about that stuff – comments that finding humans on another planet with which they can interbreed seems like a miracle from god… well, that’s the writers telling us what is going on.
Just like, when they had Adama tell Gaeta to plot them a course away from (Old) Earth, they meant that the fleet had really left (Old) Earth, and not that they were lurking in the system for an indeterminate time after.
And when they had Ellen say Daniel was dead, they meant he was really dead, and not secretly Kara’s father.
And, let’s face it, a god, or God, or whatever managed to pop Kara’s dead body light years back to Earth, and drop her and a spooky new Viper back in the fleet while knocking out power. It could’ve easily dropped a few of the Colonial’s ancestors on New Earth at some point in the distant past, to be later discovered.
According to Baltar, “Astronomical.”
It was suggested that this was the work of this ‘god’ fella we keep hearing about.
Spoilers here, though I think that goes without saying:
Since BSG is a character-based drama, I considered how the ending played out for most of the main characters, and it varies quite a bit in my mind.
[ul]
[li]Apollo: Good, if slightly unhappy. He finally gets to do what he actually wants to, but the two people he cares about most are gone. I suppose the departure of his dad is a prerequisite for this, but given my feelings on the Admiral’s conclusion this one leaves me with mixed feelings.[/li][li]Admiral Adama: Somewhat unfitting, and depressing for the once great leader to just wither away in solitude. I didn’t buy that at all. How many others lost the ones they cared about? Where did his commitment to the survival of the species go?[/li][li]Baltar: Brilliant. Though I wish Baltar could have started his transformation away from douche bag a little earlier, his return to roots as a farmer and the associated emotional response was very human, for once. [/li][li]Caprica 6: Feels like she deserves a mention due to being with Baltar - though she was always a little thin. Great to see more of her back story played out and her inexorable connection with Baltar.[/li][li]Starbuck: Completely idiotic - an utterly random cop-out. Doesn’t at all fit with the “angel” conception portrayed by Head-Six and Head-Baltar. So, she’s just like that, except she can produce a corpse, materialize a Viper, screw a Cylon, and she’s visible to all? Then randomly disappears? Terrible, and completely incomprehensible given previously established standards in the fiction. Loved the character and they just threw her in the garbage seemingly because they couldn’t think of anything else to do with her.[/li][li]Roslin: Part of me wanted her to die earlier, part of me liked that she got to actually see “Earth”. They just dragged her death out for so long I really stopped caring.[/li][li]Hera: This whole plot line was like nine tenths of a blowjob. There’s all this talk and BS about her significance and how she’s key to the survival/end of both races, as if there’s some great discovery only possible through her. Just kidding, she’s everyone’s ancestor! Boring and contrived. What did Simon and Cavil discover about her? What is it about her that’s special beyond being half human/half cylon?[/li][/ul]
Overall I’m not too thrilled with how it all turned out, but I really doubt there would have been any way to wrap everything up neatly given the amount of storyline and revelations they saved for 2 hours of television. The “Real Earth” thing was totally silly, and the religion bukkake was unnecessary and cannibalized key portions of the plot advancement.
The action sequences were okay, but totally predictable. Oh let’s arm the nukes…surprise, they accidentally fire at a key moment later in the episode! Boomer steals Hera back - you’d have to be a concussed koala to miss the foreshadowing there (but let’s beat you over the head with it one more time!). The final 5 are in the CIC - guess what the Opera House is! They crash in to the colony, rescue the child with the help of the bad guy that has redeemed herself, return to the ship and have a final showdown with the real bad guy, then something happens and they get out just in time! The only thing more cliche would have been a fistfight between Cavil and (Admiral) Adama. “I’m out.” “I’m out too” toss down guns, engage in fisticuffs
Also, the other Cylons - what the hell? The one Cavil we see shoots himself seemingly randomly, Doral barely did a thing, Simon had about a minute of insignificant play time. Leoben was one of the most fascinating characters on the show, and he just gets thrown away. I guess that’s fitting, since that’s exactly what they did to Starbuck. Their fates are entwined, and all that. Groan.
I feel like the entire final arc could have used a little more hashing out and wish they had a few more episodes (or even just one) in which to do it. They crammed a lot of tying-up-of-loose-ends in to that episode and predictably it felt ham-handed.
One thing I loved, despite the mechanism, was the tragic relationship between Apollo and Starbuck. Seeing that it started even earlier than we originally knew, and knowing that Lee had essentially betrayed his brother for a woman and ends up losing her in the long run anyway is just heartbreaking. They played it that way the whole series - the pigeon flashback could have been shown 5 times over. I’m glad they never strayed from that course.
I frakking loved it. In fact, I can’t really think of a another series finale that worked as well as this one. The character arcs all ended satisfactorily, IMO. Though Anders kinda got a raw deal.
I was afraid of an overly mystical ending, but I thought they handled it almost perfectly. With as much emphasis the series put on the spiritual, it had to come into play somehow. Here, they gave us enough to let us know the Angels were definitely real, but they weren’t near a deus ex machina they could’ve been. They were more guides than anything.
The New York scene was fun, but I wished they figured out some way to ending the show with Adama looking over the valley watching the sun set. It would’ve been more poignant.
I was happy to see the Centurions go off on their own. They deserved a break for once.
While I may be unhappy with the overall ending and what I see as the cheap cop-outs (Kara being an “angel”, Hera being “Lucy” and the forebearer to us, Bill Adama simply fading into obscurity) overall, it was a great final episode, taken as a whole and part of the story arc, it ended well, could it have ended better, sure, but there’s always room for improvement
Paige I also thought of Good Omens with the Head-Six/Head-Baltar scene in New York, wonder who would have played the “Hell’s Angels” (the biker gang H.A. that is)
As far as the Centurions go, I would hope that they go off on their own, and never bother Humanity again, Centurion revision 1.0 models (TOS Centurions) may have a hard time letting go their “Kill All Humans” programming, but the Rev 2.0 Centurions may have an easier time letting go, after all, in this incarnation of BSG, they weren’t being mistreated by Humans, it was the Meatbags that were opressing/enslaving/repressing them, in fact, Humanity (and the rebel skinjobs) actually “freed” them…
Here’s a long series of interviews with Ronald Moore, David Eick, et. al. about the finale. My favorite bit (so far), from the “what the hell is Starbuck?” section:
Interviewer: “The more I think about it, the more I think the Starbuck debate might set the Internets on fire.”
Moore: “I have more than accepted the fact that there will be people who will never quite get over that.”
I agree that it was an excellent finale.
I disagree about the final scene - I liked it. It shows a connection with “this has all happened before, and it will happen again”. Showing the robots we’ve created that can walk, talk, and perform tasks on their own has been a key element to this story from day 1.
Also, I don’t think it was a “God did it” mysticism throughout the show, I believe that humans and cylons have always had free will, and they’ve always gone down the same path of destruction. God and his angels just happened to be watching, observing, and influencing the outcome.
I missed that particular line–still need to rewatch.
Other than “woo-woo” science like faster-than-light travel? Which necessarily leads to issues with causality and “time travel” of sorts?
People in my real life have been commenting on the existence of a god for as long as I can remember, too, and I do choose to believe in woo-woo theories rather than acknowledging that god exists. Just because people say something, doesn’t mean that they’re right, even on a TV show.
I never thought Baltar was written as a particularly trustworthy source of information.
Agreed on those counts. To me, the biggest strike against my interpretation is that if they had developed FTL travel, somebody in the fleet who took high school physics (Baltar, everybody for that matter?) should know about the effects of FTL information transfer on causality and general and special relativity and all that jazz. But no one ever mentions it, so I guess we’re pretending it doesn’t exist, which is fine. I did always wonder why ships that jumped more than others (raptors, for example) didn’t come back from recon missions before they left in the first place, etc., so I guess it’s safe to say that there are no such problems in the BSG universe and one shouldn’t think so hard about it. My brain is wired to find explanation in things other than “god(s) did it,” so that’s what I tend to do.
Also, since the show always tried to reflect our own problems and issues, I always saw the religious issues and arguments of mono- vs. poly-theism and prophecy interpretations, etc. as another device to make a statement about ourselves and the silly stuff we fight over. Much like issues of race were reflected in human-cylon conflicts, many in the series were repressed, killed, boxed, etc. over their religious beliefs. It did start to shift at some point from a feeling that they were using religion as something to fight over and reflect our own stupidity to a feeling that it would be used as a nice tidy way to wrap things up without having to explain certain details.
Overall, I liked it. I’m a bit disappointed that the answer to so much was “Goddidit,” but I freely admit they set up God/gods/It all along. And in fact, I found the whole resolution of the headpeople plot charming. Starbuck . . . not so much. It was pretty random, and it was easy to see through the plot to the writers’ room on this: “So, we had Starbuck come back from the nebula crash, and she knows the way to Earth - um, how do we explain how that happened? Oh, I guess we’ll think of something during the last week of writing.”
Likewise, there was a very large, very noticeable shoehorn involved in the fleet mingling with early hominids without leaving archeological evidence incongruous with actual history. They even hung a lantern on it, but weren’t able to explain the whole abandonment of technology decision. I’ll easily buy that Lee and certain others would like to “start fresh,” but there is no frakkin way most people would agree to that. Of course, since we’re now invoking God at every turn, I suppose if It wanted that to happen, it would just make everyone agree. Funny how God didn’t do stuff like that until the series was wrapping up.
Speaking of, while I quite liked the exchange between the angels at the end, what does that last exchange mean? Not just “It doesn’t like that name,” but:
Six: look of, "come on, you’re not seeing the blatantly obvious, Dummy
Baltar: Of course, silly me. Silly, silly me.
???
Oh, I wanted to mention that one thing I loved in all ways was the setup for Cylon-Human peace being frakked all to hell by Tyrol finding out about Tori. Defied expectations, and yet was very Arthurian at the same time.
Anyone else think to themselves, “First thing the Tighs will do is create a primitive still.”?
Given that they had Starbuck sporting brand new **angel wing tattoos **months ago, I think they’ve had this planned out for some time.
Back in the ep where Roslyn, Gaius, et al are on the rebel cylons’ base ship, trying to get #3 to tell them who the Final 5 were…Gaius starts telling a Centurion “God loves you” and gets all maudlin, kind of like a homeless person preaching on the courthouse steps to robotic passersby who try to politely ignore him. This scene at first made me think “Oh, there goes that crazy Baltar again,” but it actually kind of foreshadowed the new series. The Centurion inadvertently falls on Gaius and keeps him from getting crushed when the base ship gets hit. Or was it really accidental? Could the Centurion have intentionally saved Gaius out of newfound love for him?
So maybe the new series will show Centurions discussing and praying to God in their monotone buzzes: └┘╓ ╒╖┬╫╒╓, ╚╩╝╫ ╖╓┬ |╖ ╫╒╖/╒╖…