I don’t understand, where do you see the problem? Is it the asking or is it how one asks? The questioner in both cases is trying to accomplish the same thing.
To expand on what Skerri said, providing a cite helps everyone cut through the conjecture and bullshit. A message board has the advantage over a party by being able to scroll up in a conversation to see if a cite was already provided or to point a latecomer in the right direction. If someone posts something controversial but does not provide a cite you can bet a post asking for the cite will soon appear, especially if the controversial post is from someone with a habit of posting opinions as fact. I have absolutely no problem with being asked for a cite and, if possible, will try to provide one prior to being asked.
Well, that’s part of the problem, Esprix; people have become tolerant to rudeness. (IMHO, of course.) I would hazard a guess and say not a lot of people read Miss Manners any more. I’ve always made a practice of disregarding rude people, when I should have been thinking, “damn, I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more!”
From now on, I’ll just smile, lay on the Southern accent, and say, “darling, that is the rudest thing I’ve ever heard,” and walk away. Rude people don’t even deserve my attention.
Jeff O; I do have a problem with being asked for cites when people suggest that I am on the wrong board (translation: Get off my board) because I don’t have it handy or can’t come up with one. I am not a researcher, I don’t have a vast reference library at my fingertips, or the time to spend all day making sure that everything I say is referenced in triplicate.
I also notice that the people who do this are often very careful not to express their opinions or state facts in that same thread. God forbid that they should contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way. Much easier to kick back and feel the glory of godhood by attacking those who do participate.
So much is said on this board, as in any human conversation, is conjecture and opinion. Hell, General Relativity is an opinion, not a fact. Ok, don’t argue that one, I’m just making the point that even there, there is some argument, and we learn more about it every day, so what we believe is fact today is not necessarily the in-distillable truth of tomorrow.
I don’t see ** [Fact] ** and/or **[Opinion] ** markers on every statement in every post. Probably a good thing or at least 5% of the space on this board would be taken up with people attacking someone for “incorrectly” using the markers.
The other day in one of my classes (I’m in college, by the way; it’s hard to tell the way the students act in this class), the people around me were whispering and snickering about this girl in the very front row. It’s come to the point where she shares an answer with the class/teacher and they turn to each other and whisper about how she’s a condenscending bitch. I was getting pretty mad, listening to this, as this shit used to happen to me when I was in high school (people would talk about me behind my back like this, literally). So I whisper, “Hey, how about we talk about this girl behind her back?” I didn’t say it mean or anything, but very deadpan. They stopped. I’m on my way to become a Verbal Ninja.
So it’s not just the asking, it’s being told essentially “fuck off” when you are unable to provide the cite? If that’s the case then I agree it’s rude. Of course, you could try to anticipate being asked for a cite and if you can’t find one just say so at the beginning. Someone very good at using Google (e.g.: Duck Duck Goose) may even be able to find a cite for you.
That’s perfect! Curing the problem with name-calling and further insults is just going to perpetuate the in-your-face approach. Pointing out what is happening in the way that you did calls the rudeness to their attention without making them defensive.
In college I spent a lot of time with a man who was much admired. One day in the student center, someone who was an admitted “flaming” homosexual entered the grill. One of the show-offs on campus called him by a rude name and everyone laughed a little too loudly. My much admired friend excused himself from the table and went over to talk quietly to the offending person. You could watch the shame come over his face. I never asked my friend what he said, but that action made him a hero in my eyes.
BTW, a similar incident happened another time to the same homosexual. Some jock called him a faggot. The homosexual’s response was perfect: “Very good! Now point out a chair…”
For those of you interested in this subject, Michael Moore has come out with a new film with rave reviews and a jury award from Cannes. The name of it is Bowling for Columbine. It is a plea for civility and kindness.
I was one of those picked-on kids in school, a square peg and very self-conscious about it. But I remember the day I made an important discovery. It was 7th grade geography class, and we we drawing maps. Another geeky kid who was conducting his own fruitless scramble up the social ladder came past my desk on his way back from the pencil sharpener and, in his usual annoying way, tried to get a reaction out of me with, “Gee, that sure is an ugly map you’re drawing there.” (What a wit.) On another day he might have gotten the reaction he wanted, but this time (I still have no idea how I thought of this) I said brightly, “Oh, thank you!” He got this weird look on his face, then slunk back to his seat, deflated.
That was the day I learned I could give as good as I got.
