TonySinclair, in post #4, seems to be heading in that direction.
Well I guess you could extrapolate that out to an incompetent 260 lb. guy beating Rousey, but I don’t think that’s what he meant.
When you say “beat her in the octagon” I assume you man under prevailing MMA rules and I have no idea what those are.
The only possible way I could see “winning” is if I was able to get my arm around her neck, throw us both to the ground use my weight and upper body strength to choke her out over several minutes. Despite my size advantage I could never old to prevail against even a small male boxer because they would simply be too strong. My only hope is if her upper body strength is substantially less than mine.
This assumes
1: I can get close enough for a grapple like this and go to the ground (uncertain)
2: This action is allowed under the rules (uncertain)
3: Her upper body strength is less than mine (possible I can bench 300 lbs)
4: I have the stamina to hold onto her for the 2-3 minutes required for submission while she beats on me (very uncertain)
Unless I can immobilize her striking power (somehow) my chances are very poor.
Weight difference makes a significant difference, that’s why they have weight classes. A well trained but not world class fighter who weighs 30 lbs more than her would stand a good chance of taking her out. No one is saying it’s the only thing, but it matters.
There are several well trained martial artists on the Dope, and a few who dabble in MMA. I’m sure they’ll eventually weigh in.
Never heard of her. What, is she some kind of geometry teacher or something?
I’m not saying that I’m a nine foot tall giantess ninja, but I’m not-NOT saying it either…
You are badly mistaken. I would never say a weight advantage makes ALL the difference, any more than I would say a skill advantage makes all the difference. I already said (I guess you missed it) that Rousey would kick the ass of most 230-pound guys. But I would also assert that a 50-pound, 8-year-old girl is not going to beat a competent 200-pound man, even if she’s blindingly fast and trained to perfection.
It stands to reason that there is a maximum fighting weight for humans, beyond which any additional weight hurts your speed and flexibility, without adequate compensation in strength or ability to absorb punishment (and when discussing competent, trained fighters, I’m making the assumption that for anything below this maximum weight, more weight DOES yield those benefits). Obviously, if someone weighed that much (in fighting shape), and had the best skills in the world, he/she could beat anyone else in the world.
It follows that there is a lower weight X, such that the best fighter in the world who weighs X can beat any competent (but not world class) fighter in the world, no matter what he weighs.
X is clearly increasing — 100 years ago, anyone over 175 was considered a heavyweight in pro boxing, and the Dempsey-Willard fight made it clear that that was a reasonable cutoff. Today, the NFL is full of guys weighing 250+ who are fast and cut, and boxing had to raise the heavyweight limit back in the 80’s. I realize that boxing is not a perfect analogy to MMA, but IMO it’s relevant.
The question is, if you are the fastest and most skilled fighter in the world, how much do you have to weigh before you can beat any competent (but not world class) fighter in the world?
I cheerfully concede that there is such a weight, but I would guess that it’s much closer to 200 pounds than it is to 135 pounds (Rousey’s weight).
I have trained with some really good 135, 145 and 155 men in Jujitsu, wrestling and Kickboxing… When we went fairly well all out, yeah I beat most of them. If you could talk Rousey into giving me a try I would at least make a good show of it.
My son who is really an excellent MMA fighter, I would put good money on him for the win. But he doesn’t post here so I guess he’s out. He fights at 135.
A kindred spirit.
I’d kick her little 135 pound ass…at Trivia Crack, or Wow PVP, or any Avalon Hill war game, or Magic: The Gathering or even Full Contact Flatulence.
Rousey’s judo expert mother is on record as calling the idea of Ronda fighting Floyd Mayweather stupid, saying that a 135 pound man and a 135 woman are not equal. So even giving Mayweather considerable credit for his skill as a boxer it’s apparent that muscle power is a huge advantage for men. I would expect a fit and strong man of 6’2" and 220 to 230 pounds would make short work of her, and especially so if he has martial arts training.
What!?! Not even Hit-Girl?!? Next thing I know you’ll spewing nonsense about how unrealistic River Tam killing 18 bazillion reavers in hand-to-hand combat is. It’s gotta be real - I saw it :D.
Speaking as a considerably larger, fairly well-trained man, she would kick my ass nine ways from Sunday without breaking a sweat.
Regards,
Shodan
Here’s a clip from the Jackass movie where Ryan Dunn gets taken out by a female Thai kick boxer. It looks like the clip has been edited but by my count he lasted 9 seconds.
I suspect that it would take longer for Rhonda Rousey to take me out because I can run away pretty fast.
I don’t think it would be hard to beat her according to UFC rules. However being male and outweighing her significantly it would never be sanctioned. Even in straight grappling it would be hard for her to beat an athletic, larger male.
That’s actually a great way to bring this thread down to earth. Boxers’ training is all about punches (delivering and avoiding), so they very likely are close to untrained in grappling, submission holds, kicks, etc. In other words, if anything they are below the standard of what I would call a competent male in the context of MMA fighting — they’re in great shape, and they’re familiar with fighting, but even world champ boxers are pretty much untrained with regard to MMA techniques.
Does anyone think that Ronda would kick Manny Pacquiao’s ass? Even when he held the featherweight title at 126 pounds, ten pounds less than Ronda? Does anyone think she would kick a world class middleweight or light-heavyweight boxer’s ass?
If you do, then I guess we just disagree.
Her biggest strength is grappling and arm (and presumably leg) bars. I imagine a fit muscular guy, especially one around 6’ or more and 220 lbs, could thwart arm and leg bars simply through muscle power, and on the ground the weight and muscle difference mean she’d get tossed around easily while at the same time having a lot of difficulty if not finding it impossible to move him. And then there’s punching power, where she won’t do much damage but the guy’s punches would be devastating. Mayweather is known more for his boxing skill than his punching power and Rousey’s mother doesn’t even want them to tangle because she’d be so outmatched in muscularity at 135 lbs.
Rousey’s definitely a badass. She’s even had her own elbow dislocated in a fight and went on to win after popping it back in place herself. I damn sure wouldn’t want to take her on. But there are limits to what any one fighter can do, and in the end Rousey’s still a 5’7", 135 lb female fighter and as tough, bad, strong and disciplined as she is, those factors are pretty limiting factors when it comes to fighting big, strong guys.
If by ‘kick ass’ you mean dislocate his elbow, then yes. A boxer would be especially vulnerable to leaving his arm out for something like that, and if you watch boxing you’ll see those guys can be taken down easily. Grappling is not their strong point. Sure, any quality boxer that can connect with a knock-out punch first will win, Rousey may even lose that way someday in the octagon, but boxing is a very limited martial art. However, for top athletes learning enough about mixed martial arts to avoid that armbar wouldn’t be all that difficult.
She can dislocate the elbow of big man. Her whole body goes into that armbar, it’s an advantage of her short stature. Pure strength won’t help that guy, he needs to know how to keep her from getting hold of his arm to start with and how to grip that arm with his other hand to keep her from pulling it out of the socket.
I participated in and watched boxing very closely for many years, and I disagree. The guys who leave their arms out, or carry their hands low, are showboating. The first things boxers learn are to keep their hands up, and close. They snap their hands back almost as fast as they snap them out. Watch Olympic boxing to get a better idea of what boxers are actually trained to do when they’re not showing off.
I’m not saying that Ronda couldn’t hurt a big guy, and I’m not even saying he would win every time. If she got in a good kick at the right spot, she could very well stun or incapacitate him long enough to get him in a hold he couldn’t escape. And of course if she has him where she wants him in an arm bar or whatever, she can dislocate his elbow.
The challenge would be getting him where she wants him, and IMO it would only take a couple hours of instruction to show a big, athletic guy how to avoid that. And although her skills can overcome a guy’s advantage in size, strength, and weight, there’s a limit, and it’s probably not much more than 50 pounds or so.
Look at football. It’s obvious that speed and agility are crucial in getting to a quarterback or running back, and you don’t have to be that big to tackle a guy who hasn’t got up to full speed (a runner at the line), or who isn’t running at all (a QB in the pocket). And it’s simple physics that the lighter you are, the easier it is to change direction quickly. So you would think that there would be a lot of relatively light defensive linemen in the NFL.
Nope. The average weight of the four defensive tackles taken in the first round of the 1974 NFL draft was 267 pounds. Surely that is heavy enough that no further weight increase is necessary, and speed and agility was the most important thing after that?
Nope. According to a 2013 article, the average weight of defensive tackles at the NFL combines in the last five years was 304, and the average weight of the first-round prospects was 318. More weight conveys an advantage, even over a guy weighing 270 (or 304), even in a position where speed and agility are crucial.