Because you have the technology does NOT make it ok to use it, asshole.

[Stoid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoid
We are ALL special snowflakes, Meyer, it’s just that most of us** don’t have the nerve to own it**.

Really? We’re all super special and different, and that’s why you posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoid
People are, by and large, sheep. Research has proved it. Most people will wait to see what other people do before they decide how to act themselves. And even if they know in their hearts that other people are acting badly, too often they will simply say nothing rather than speak out against the crowd.

Rather than conflict, the two statements are in perfect alignment.

WHO we ARE and HOW we BEHAVE are separate and distinct. We are all special snowflakes - that hide how we are different (i.e. afraid to own it) because, in our sheepy way, we want to fit in and be accepted.

We are snowflakes, we behave like sheep.

People are afraid to be different and go against the group - why? Could it be because the group is seeking to enforce completely unimportant and superficial standards by shaming and mocking us when we fail to toe the line? Ya think?

I think you’re missing the point (unsurprisingly). If you decide to ‘let your freak flag fly’, then you must accept the consequences of that decision

And you are quite deliberately sidestepping the point entirely, also unsurprising: WHY must someone “accept the consequences”? WHY are those the consequences? WHY do so many people try to defend ugly behavior? WHY do you think it’s acceptable to shame and humiliate people for completely harmless things? Is a person bad for dressing funny/sloppy/slutty/stupid/weird? Do you believe that? And if the person in question is a good person, and being held up to ridicule is hurtful to them, why do they deserve to be hurt? And if they don’t deserve to be hurt, why would you defend people hurting them? Isn’t the larger injustice and evil in the people who hurt others who don’t deserve it because they feel like laughing? Do you think the laughter lasts and lingers and provides soul-deep benefit to offset the likely lingering pain that comes from being ridiculed?

and most people realize that that includes other people judging your choices.

Try to stop mixing different concepts, because it undermines your credibility.

Judgment is not the same as public ridicule and I am sure you know that. I have freely stated that I’m as likely to think someone is nuts for dressing a certain way as anyone. The difference is that I don’t think it’s acceptable to express it and I don’t agree that the person who dresses funny has “asked” for or deserves to be mocked and humiliated. I don’t think it’s ok and I would never in this life do what you and others are doing, which is arguing that there’s legitimacy in being cruel to people who have harmed no one by their behavior, and I think it’s positively freakish that you and others do!

You just keep arguing the same thing: “It’s gonna happen. You dress like that, people will act that way. YOu have to accept it. You asked for it. It will occur. People will behave that way. It’s on you to stop them from being mean to you by dressing yourself (or whatever) in a way that does not inspire people to behave like that. Your fault your fault your fault! I don’t have to look at why I act like this or want to be mean to you and disregard your feelings! I just do! Your fault! You MAKE ME!”

It’s the same insane argument that some men use for rape: you dressed like a slut! You know that men can’t help themselves! My inability to control MY bad behavior is on YOU to control and if you don’t, well, you asked for it!

Both arguments are 100% pure, unadulterated horseshit.

And then when people disagree with you and point out the logical flaws in your stance,

You be sure to show me when that happens, because the only thing offered so far has been completely illogical and self-sereving argument that people suck so we all need conform to avoid being bullied by the sucky people.

What crap.

I will continue to feel completely ok with my wacky idea that we could direct this collective power to shame the assholes who want to shame the harmless. I’m lettin’ that freak flag fly and I’m completely good with it.

[Slithy_Tove]

@Sleeps_With_Butterflies

Are you serious??!? You honestly think that other patients are bound by HIPAA?!? Really? That makes sense to you?

No they are not, but medical facilities have the obligation to protect against the misuse of patient confidentialtiy. Not just by staff, but by other patients.

Now, if that photo had been snapped in the waiting room of an abortion provider, and posted on the internet on lookatthebabykillers.com instead of lookatthefatties.com, would we still be having a debate about unlimited freedom of speech?

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

@Slithy_Tove

No they are not, but medical facilities have the obligation to protect against the misuse of patient confidentialtiy. Not just by staff, but by other patients.

Perhaps you feel they are morally responsible, but it is absolutely not a violation of HIPAA against the medical facility if someone not on their staff takes a patient’s picture in the waiting area. Absolutely not.

[Stoid]

@Chimera

You also have the right to criticize others for what they wear.

Of course. But it doesn’t mean you should. It doesn’t rate as a positive contribution to the world.

don’t be surprised when people get criticized or laughed at for their choices. This is Freedom of Expression and Human Nature.

I’m not surprised, I’m dismayed. Human nature can be a very ugly thing and we strive to overcome it in many other instances, why so much support for leaving this particular aspect alone to be as fucked up as it is?

.

The moral of the story is that you can’t just wear whatever the fuck you want and then try to require OTHER PEOPLE to completely ignore it or act in a certain way.

I disagree. I think the moral of the story is that your employer as a right and generally a good reason to require certain standards of dress, and punish you for failing to adhere to that standard.

And that has nothing to do with this thread.

You can’t control other people, you CAN control yourself.

Excellent point! So why exactly shouldn’t people control their unfortunate and unpleasant urges to mock and ridicule others for their harmless behavior/appearance/whatever? Why is anyone arguing that “people are just that way” as though people are nothing more than a bunch of apes with no self-control or awareness, so it’s unreasonable to try and convince them to stop being so mean to people who have done no harm to anyone?

[Stoid]

@Shot_From_Guns

tricorder, not a triquarter.

Thanks. I’m sure my doctor would have corrected me. She’s a committed fan, floor to ceiling autographed photos of everyone, ever.

She’s very jealous, Walter Koenig is my neighbor and I’ve had dinner with Marina Sirtis, who is a good friend of a friend. I was trying to swing a meet to trade for a spot in my doc’s concierge program.

[AClockworkMelon]

@Stoid

Of course. But it doesn’t mean you should. It doesn’t rate as a positive contribution to the world.

That sounds like communist talk to me.

@Stoid

I’m not surprised, I’m dismayed. Human nature can be a very ugly thing and we strive to overcome it in many other instances, why so much support for leaving this particular aspect alone to be as fucked up as it is?

Again, where are you in threads begging people not to mock the stupid? Of course, being overweight you choose to defend this person. Guess what? She deserves to be mocked. Welcome to the consensus reality.

@Stoid

Excellent point! So why exactly shouldn’t people control their unfortunate and unpleasant urges to mock and ridicule others for their harmless behavior/appearance/whatever? Why is anyone arguing that “people are just that way” as though people are nothing more than a bunch of apes with no self-control or awareness, so it’s unreasonable to try and convince them to stop being so mean to people who have done no harm to anyone?

You saw that picture and come back to report that you don’t find it funny? You’re either a liar, a social retard or you’ve got one hell of a chip on your shoulder.

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

@Stoid

She’s very jealous, Walter Koenig is my neighbor …

Awww, Boner’s dad

RIP, Boner.

[Slithy_Tove]

@Sleeps_With_Butterflies

Perhaps you feel they are morally responsible, but it is absolutely not a violation of HIPAA against the medical facility if someone not on their staff takes a patient’s picture in the waiting area. Absolutely not.

There’s every chance that your medical/legal experience is more extensive than mine. I’ve only been a pharmacy tech and a hospice volunteer. We would not not fall back on the “oh, well, it’s not a HIPAA violation, not my problem” if we saw this behavior by another patient. I didn’t say it was a HIPPA violation, just that “now we’re getting into HIPPA violation territory.”

It’s a form of cyber-bullying and I wouldn’t allow it, as much out of common decency as to cover my ass in a HIPPA lawsuit that probably doesn’t have any merit but will still cost my employeer thousands of dollars.

And anyway, First Amendment, HIPPA, etc. aside; the whole point of those of us who are protesting this behavior is that you can’t be “not an asshole” on a technicality.

[Meyer6]

@Stoid

WHO we ARE and HOW we BEHAVE are separate and distinct. We are all special snowflakes - that hide how we are different (i.e. afraid to own it) because, in our sheepy way, we want to fit in and be accepted.

We are snowflakes, we behave like sheep.

Alright, so you’re not special in that you are unique, you’re special in that you’re ‘not afraid to own it’ (translation: I do whatever I please and justify my actions by saying I’m expressing myself). And by being ‘not afraid to own it’, you are unique among us, thus restoring your special status above us. Got it.

WHY must someone “accept the consequences”? WHY are those the consequences? WHY do so many people try to defend ugly behavior? WHY do you think it’s acceptable to shame and humiliate people for completely harmless things? Is a person bad for dressing funny/sloppy/slutty/stupid/weird? Do you believe that? And if the person in question is a good person, and being held up to ridicule is hurtful to them, why do they deserve to be hurt?

NOBODY HAS SAID A SINGLE THING ABOUT HER BEING A GOOD OR BAD PERSON, other than you. People (including you) have said she made poor choices in clothing. I don’t see anyone saying anything else.

Try to stop mixing different concepts, because it undermines your credibility.

Thanks for the laugh - being accuse of a lack of credibility by you is quite hilarious. Anyways, I never mixed any concepts - the whole sentence was “If you decide to ‘let your freak flag fly’, then you must accept the consequences of that decision, and most people realize that that includes other people judging your choices”. If you see a mixing of concepts there, it’s only because of your interpretation. Nice try at being insulting, but I’m sure you can do better.

It’s the same insane argument that some men use for rape: you dressed like a slut! You know that men can’t help themselves! My inability to control MY bad behavior is on YOU to control and if you don’t, well, you asked for it!

Yes, compare this to rape, that makes you look more sane. Why don’t you try to figure out how to fit the Nazis in, then you’ll be golden. :rolleyes:

[Chimera]

@Stoid

Excellent point! So why exactly shouldn’t people control their unfortunate and unpleasant urges to mock and ridicule others for their harmless behavior/appearance/whatever? Why is anyone arguing that “people are just that way” as though people are nothing more than a bunch of apes with no self-control or awareness, so it’s unreasonable to try and convince them to stop being so mean to people who have done no harm to anyone?

Because by doing so, you are attempting to control others. We ARE apes, with a lot more animal behavior baggage than we like to admit.

No, I’m not saying that we just let people do what people want to do, because we are capable of so much more. But getting all bent out of shape because people engage in ritual shaming behaviors is in itself a ritual shaming behavior.

[Stoid]

@Chimera

But getting all bent out of shape because people engage in ritual shaming behaviors is in itself a ritual shaming behavior.

By Jove I think he’s finally caught on!

That is exactly what I’ve been saying! Instead of shaming people for stupid, completely harmless things that have nothing to do with us, especially when it may make them happy in a totally harmless way that has nothing to do with us, how about we act out those icky impulses on shitty rude assholes who get off on hurting people!

C’mon gang, we can do it!

[AClockworkMelon]

Your plan is nothing new. White knights (NSFW) aren’t paid much mind on the interweb.

[Stoid]

@Meyer6

Alright, so you’re not special in that you are unique, you’re special in that you’re ‘not afraid to own it’ (translation: I do whatever I please and justify my actions by saying I’m expressing myself). And by being ‘not afraid to own it’, you are unique among us, thus restoring your special status above us. Got it.

You definitely have issues here, Meyer, so I’m going to let you have them.

NOBODY HAS SAID A SINGLE THING ABOUT HER BEING A GOOD OR BAD PERSON, other than you. People (including you) have said she made poor choices in clothing. I don’t see anyone saying anything else.

Nice try, but its a fail.

I give you the credit of being WAY more intelligent than that, and I give you the credit of understanding EXACTLY what I’m saying.

But I’ll say it again:

I never said anyone made the slightest reference to whether the gal in the photo or anyone else being mocked was good or bad. My point is that they should think really hard about it before they elect to ridicule her or anyone else. Maybe she’s a saint. Maybe she’s the most kind, generous, loving person who ever drew breath. Maybe she’s just a sweet kid. Maybe she’s just a normal every day person trying to do her best.

Think about that. Does anyone who fits those descriptions deserve to be held up to ridicule and shamed for completely harmless, superficial things?

Because if someone who fits those descriptions does not deserve to be hurt, why would anyone think it’s acceptable to treat her in a manner she’s very likely to find hurtful? Why is that alright?

Let me change it up for you… same girl, same outfit. Is it ok to punch her in the face because she looks like that? Because if you say no, then you got nuthin’, because it’s no different. Both are hurtful, and emotional hurt may actually be worse, over a longer period in a more serious way.

And if you say yes, well, I sure hope we’re not in the same city.

[AClockworkMelon]

The fact that you’d equate being ridiculed with being punched in the face just demonstrates how full of shit you are, yet again. Do people seriously think they have the right to not be offended?

[Stoid]

@AClockworkMelon

Do people seriously think they have the right to not be offended?

Apparently you and a number of other people think so, isn’t that the underlying idea? “That outfit/that hair/those thighs offend my sensibilities, therefore I have a right to dump on the person responsible without regard for their feelings.”

This has very little to do with staking out rights or laws or rules. It has to do with making conscious choices about who you want to be. I think we should think about what we do, the effect it has, and why we do it. We should think about how what we do affects others, and how it therefore affects us. Do most people who engage in mockery and derision come away from it feeling really good about themselves and their behavior? Is it a good tool for improving the quality of their own lives or anyone elses?

People behave mindlessly and I think they wound themselves as much or more than anyone else. I think there are better ways to be better, feel better, do better.

At the very least I think it would serve people in general to make an effort to question themselves and be completely clear on why they do what they do so they can be absolutely sure it’s the best choice. Some people will keep doing it, but some people won’t. And everyone who makes a different choice has done themselves even more good than they have done the world outside themselves.

[Rand_Rover]

@Guinastasia

WTF is “male abortion?”

That’s when all of a man’s sperm commits suicide upon seeing your naked body.

[Rand_Rover]

Fat people are funny. Cite? Here’s my cite.

[AClockworkMelon]

@Stoid

Apparently you and a number of other people think so, isn’t that the underlying idea? “That outfit/that hair/those thighs offend my sensibilities, therefore I have a right to dump on the person responsible without regard for their feelings.”

First of all, my sensibilities being offended is not what gives me the right to dump on a person without regard for his or her feelings.

@Stoid

This has very little to do with staking out rights or laws or rules. It has to do with making conscious choices about who you want to be. I think we should think about what we do, the effect it has, and why we do it. We should think about how what we do affects others, and how it therefore affects us. Do most people who engage in mockery and derision come away from it feeling really good about themselves and their behavior? Is it a good tool for improving the quality of their own lives or anyone elses?

I love comedians. I could watch good stand-up comedy all day. You must hate comedians. All they do is dump on people. Yes, when I’m done watching a set by George Carlin I feel good. Don’t you? Oh, right. I forgot. You don’t have a sense of humor at all.

@Stoid

People behave mindlessly and I think they wound themselves as much or more than anyone else. I think there are better ways to be better, feel better, do better.

At the very least I think it would serve people in general to make an effort to question themselves and be completely clear on why they do what they do so they can be absolutely sure it’s the best choice. Some people will keep doing it, but some people won’t. And everyone who makes a different choice has done themselves even more good than they have done the world outside themselves.

Do you really believe this?

I did a quick search on the SDMB for threads that you started and I found these:
Are there love songs that don’t focus on appearance? (To women, particularly)
Language, Bullies, Fat, C*nt and What We Find Offensive
How to get your emotional needs met the Stoid way…
Bras suck for women of size

I think you do have a chip on your shoulder.

The one that gave me a laugh was this one, though:
Advocating censorship in the name of rights is an oxymoron

[Cat_Whisperer]

This thread is stupid and I don’t think I want to play any more. Good day, I say.
(I may be back later. I make no promises.)

[Meyer6]

@Stoid

You definitely have issues here, Meyer, so I’m going to let you have them.

Yes, I’m the one with issues. Issues that result in me being whipped into righteous indignation at the slightest perceived injustice. Issues that mean I think the world is all wrong and I alone am right, to the extent that I wasted years of my life in court trying to exact revenge on a man who spurned me. No wait, that’s you. But the attempt at transference is nice.

Let me change it up for you… same girl, same outfit. Is it ok to punch her in the face because she looks like that? Because if you say no, then you got nuthin’, because it’s no different. Both are hurtful, and emotional hurt may actually be worse, over a longer period in a more serious way.

And if you say yes, well, I sure hope we’re not in the same city.

Good God, this just gets more and more ridiculous. Laughing at somebody is not in any way equal to punching them in the face, you stupid git. I’m pretty sure all of us have been teased or laughed at at some point - but I, for one, have never been punched in the face. I mean, you have decided to judge and deride the person who took this photo - is it also okay if you go to his house and set it on fire? Because it’s no different OMG, eleventy-one!

I find it hard to believe you are actually this short of perspective. You’ve now brought in rape, theft, murder, and amazingly, hurricane Katrina. This may come as a shock to you, but most people, even assholey types like the guy who posted that picture, attach a different degree of gravity to photography than they do to, say, rape.