Why someone's appearance is simply none of your blasted business...a rant by Jadis.

I composed this earlier today and put it in my LJ because the subject that inspired the rant knows about SDMB and knows my ID here (although I have had no indication that he reads here regularly). I’ve decided that since the likelihood of him reading it is small, and it’s something that I feel strongly about, I decided to rant to a wider audience after all…but oh, how I wish SDMB allowed sock-puppets right about now.

So anyway, I went to lunch yesterday with a few people in my department, including my department manager (who I will hereafter refer to as R). R is generally a pretty good guy, but he has some habits that really get under my skin, the worst of which is his complete disdain for anyone he perceives to be overweight. Being that I am overweight myself, you can imagine how this makes me feel.

Anyway, to the point of my rant. The place we went for lunch was the Chinese buffet. I was almost immediately reminded why I loathe going to the buffet with R, despite the fact that this buffet has the best selection in the area and is generally a good place to go for lunch. The reason I hate going with R is because as soon as we get there, he immediately starts in on how many fat people eat at the buffet, and how he hopes they leave some food for the rest of us.

This is offensive on so many levels, I can barely articulate it. But I’m going to try.

To give you some specific examples, while we were at lunch yesterday, a group of 3 ladies sat down across from us. They all appeared to be middle-aged, and two were at least moderately overweight. One of the overweight women was handicapped and was using one of those rolling walkers. When they were seated next to us, R laughed and said “Here comes the buffet brigade.” When the handicapped woman came back to her table, he made some sort of snide comment about how her walker didn’t appear to be impeding her ability to carry a loaded plate. He also commented to us that perhaps her handicap was a result of her legs giving out from being such a big fat pig.

I stewed all the way through lunch, barely participating in teh conversation. However badly I wanted to flip out on this guy and start ranting about how ignorant his remarks are, the fact is that I work in a small department and I can’t really afford to stir things up. So here I go.

My rant. Please hold the applause until the end of the piece. Thank you.

There are a thousand and one reasons that any individual may be overweight. We all know that when you come right down to it, the root cause is that any given overweight person has obviously been habitually taking in more calories than they’re expending. Just why this is a crime worthy of sneering disdain to some people is beyond me.

The reasons for this “calories in/calories expended” imbalance are legion. Perhaps (as is most likely the case with this woman) the person has a handicap that makes it difficult or impossible to get any significant exercise to offset their eating habits. Maybe the person has a hormonal imbalance (thyroid, PCOS, etc.) that affects their metabolism. Maybe the person has an extremely stressful schedule and can’t find the time to exercise properly. Maybe the person is on medication (steroids, etc.) that caused a sudden weight gain. Maybe the person’s doctor asked them to gain weight to better be able to handle the rigors of treating cancer with chemotherapy.

Or maybe the person is already on a diet. Perhaps that overweight women with the walker has been dieting for 2 years to get where she is, and used to be twice the size she is now. Maybe she’s out celebrating a weight-loss goal she’s achieved. Maybe she hasn’t made any progress in a year and she decided to splurge for once.

Or maybe she just eats poorly and hates to exercise.

I could go on and on, but the underlying point is that NO ONE knows the life story of the overweight people that we see. NO ONE’s weight problem is ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!! Someone’s weight problem does not make you a superior person for being more dedicated to controlling your food intake, or having a better exercise regimen, or just flat out having a more efficient metabolism. Where the fuck do people get off deciding that people with less than perfect bodies deserve your outright scorn and derision? That they deserve to be mocked and laughed at, to have every mouthful of food they consume be scrutinized, to not even be able to go to a restaurant and eat in fucking PEACE because someone is offended by the fact that they just don’t look as good as someone around them. Why do you get to judge? Do people like R honestly think that A) the person in question is ignorant of the fact that they’re overweight and B) has never done a thing in their entire life to try to change it?

I’m so fucking sick of hearing people say “Well, if so-and-so is unhappy being overweight, why don’t they just eat less and exercise more.” Gee, thanks. Why didn’t anyone think of that earlier? The diet industry will be SO GLAD that there’s finally a solution for all of these poor fat people. The truth is, it’s not always that simple and it’s not always that easy. Even for those that dedicate themselves to it, success is not assured. Those who try and fail repeatedly often seem to actually wind up slowing their metabolism even further and actually make it increasingly difficult for themselves to succeed in subsequent efforts. And for those who do succeed, depending on where they started, the journey may take several years. And during those years, they continue to be under the microscope of people who still believe that it’s entirely within their rights to laugh and poke fun at people they know nothing about except for what they see.

And all that they see is that someone is unacceptably overweight. No history, no explanation, no credit given for being in the midst of a Herculean effort to finally, once and for all, look normal. Nope. You get no credit whatsoever until you succeed in conforming to the ideal in the mind of people like R. Yet apparently, according to people like R, the overweight should stop eating entirely until they’re within the bounds of acceptable appearance. To show their face at a buffet where they have unlimited access to an array of food is a veritable affront to the sensibilities of those with normal bodies.

I’ll say it again. How someone looks is NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS! None. Not one iota. You don’t know what has transpired in the life of any individual you seem to see fit to mock, you don’t get to judge that which you know nothing about.

I can’t take it any longer. Unfortunately, the best thing it appears that I can do at this point is to just stop going to lunch with him. I’m not sure how R thinks I’m supposed to react to these little diatribes. I hate to hear what he says about me when I’m not around. I’ve been so tempted to ask him whether he’d be making those unkind remarks about me if he didn’t know me and happened to see me at the buffet that day. I suppose that maybe, just maybe, since he’s seen my own struggle to lose weight (and I have lost some), I get bonus points even though I haven’t totally succeeded. Since he knows me personally and has witnessed my efforts to lose weight, I get to be in his version of weight-loss purgatory…I’m not totally a big fat pig who has no self-control, because he’s seen otherwise. One would think that witnessing my own difficulties over the past 2 years would give him some perspective and empathy for others, but apparently not.

The irony here is that R went on a diet about 2 years ago and lost approximately 50 pounds. He has also since gained about 20 of it back. I guess I expected a little more empathy from someone who has been significantly overweight himself at some point in his life, but apparently his judgement of others shortcomings doesn’t extend to his own experience. I additionally expected that someone who’s been successful, yet is still battling his weight, to be even more poignantly aware that the battle never ends.

I give up. It’s obvious that with many people, you just can’t win.

** (((((((Jadis))))))) **

You deserve a hug. [sorry if this is "not done"on this board. I’m new.]

I’m skinny myself and often the opposite happens. “Why don’t you eat some more? Are you sick? Anorexia?” etc.

Ignore R.

I know that must be hard, but just think "I don’t care what some loser says.

You’re absolutely right: ** It’s none of his [or anyone else’s] business**

He’s a

:wally without the wink.

Excellent post, Jadis. I know someone very like this, and it grates on me too.

I know that this insensitivity happens in the other direction too, and IMO it’s just as inappropriate. The bottom line is that unless you know someone personally, you have absolutely no way of knowing why someone looks the way they do, and to comment on it, be it amongst your friends or to the person’s face, is just flat out rude.

Sadly, too skinny is far more acceptable than too thin. Rude comments like the ones you’ve endured stem more from jealousy (along the lines of “You’re so skinny, I hate you, I wish I could be like you”) rather than derision.

My best friend has a rare and serious liver condition which has necessitated several operations, close to a year living with two stints holding her bile ducts open and an ongoing struggle with eating in general without being sick. As a result, she lost a lot of weight rather quickly, and she was tiny to begin with.

She went on a business trip after losing the weight and ran into a co-worker in the branch office that she hadn’t seen in a while. The co-worker raved up and down about how fabulous my friend looked, and finally blurted “You’re so skinny…how did you do it?”

My friend looked at her and deadpanned “Liver disease. You ought to try it.”

The woman didn’t say another word to her the entire trip.

I shall repeat my advice from you LJ post. Next time shove an eggroll up his urethra and tell him to MIND HIS OWN FUCKING BUSINESS!!!

Why, oh why can’t people just worry about themselves and leave others alone?

Zette

Extremely overweight people flat-out make me sick. That’s why.

It’s for the same reasons as why stinky people or dirty people annoy me. Whether it’s right or moral or not is another issue, but you’re appearance affects the comfort level of others. Part of growing up and being an adult is realizing that you have to conform to the majority. And the fact is… most of us out here are sickened by obesity. It is not a moral judgment. It’s a visual judgement. Pure and simple. I don’t care about your struggle to lose weight. I don’t care about the reasons why you might be overwieght. Weight CAN BE controlled… and we see it as an indication that you don’t care about your health and that you don’t care about the comfort of the other people around you. Yes, there are exceptions, such as diseases and drugs or whatever, but it is obvious from your OP that you don’t care what anyone else thinks, and that is exactly what is so irritating.

Now, I am not talking about people in the 200s here. I’m talking about the really overweight folks. Oh yeah one more thing… being a fat slob does not make you handicapped. If you’re so fuckin gross that you can’t even walk… holy crap, walk a little.

I usually don’t like to ‘de-claw’ my posts like this, but I will say this: joking about it is not funny. I almost never express the opinions I express here… and I agree with the OP that the jokes are definately wrong. I disagree with you saying people should just be allowed to run around being sick and disgusting and nobody should even think bad thoughts. Joking about it is bad, but don’t expect people to accept things they don’t like.

and small minded, judgemental twits bug the shit out of me, too. go figure.

What the . . . ? I don’t give one flying fuck about what you like or don’t like. It doesn’t affect your life, so keep your fucking cake-hole shut about it.

Capisce? Pretty simple, huh?

Of course she doesn’t give a rat’s sphincter what you think, choadboy. Why the fuck do you think you’re so important that she should?

Yeah. Allow them to bitch and moan and ridicule these people at their leisure. It’s a free country you know. Everyone should have to hear the opinions of people like you, typo. :rolleyes:

I guess that’s the ENTIRE POINT OF THE OP, moron.

You don’t have to like it, love it, or accept it. Just keep your ignorant, blathering mouth SHUT about it.

Imagine what a world we would live in if people walked around yelling “Man, that person is ugly as a hatful of assholes!” and “Holy shit, lady- eat a sandwhich already” and “Wow, Porky, try a salad next time!”

Holy shit, we do live in that world. How fucking sad is that. You have the right to any opinion you like, but you do not have a the right to impose it on others (particularly a coworker that ends up in a bad position over it)

Zette

Part of growing up and being an adult is learning to choose what is right, or good, or even not harmful, regardless of what the majority thinks. You must lead a very sad life.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Dude, you’re hilarious!

It’s also a personal issue. Tell me this: if you see someone with acne, do you think it’s part of your business? Do you walk up to them with some Oxy pads and make wild gestures? No. Because although you “might have to” look at them, it’s none of your fucking business unless you’re their doctor or spouse or something like that.

And in any case it would be your business … how? You’re making an argument that’s only slightly even RELATED to the OP, and at best it’s tangential. Here’s a summary of the OP (and Jadis, if I’m wrong here, please lemme know:)):

Jadis: “It ain’t your fucking business that s/he is overweight. Stop with the offensive comments.”

dna_man: “But we have to look at you! Conform!”

dna_man: it. isn’t. your. fucking. business. Stop believing otherwise.

Or maybe, just possibly, the issue here is what she stated: IT ISN’T YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS THAT SOMEONE IS OVERWEIGHT! If Jadis doesn’t care that you are disgusted by her appearance (and if you are disgusted by her appearance, pally, get a clue, she’s hot), more power to her! Buy a clue already!

Did you perhaps miss significant parts of the OP? And even parts of your own post where you listed disability/disease as a possible reason for obesity?

You, for all I care, can think that fat people should be burned at the stake. THINK whatever. Just keep your comments to yourself and realize that you have as much business knowing why someone is fat as they do knowing the intricate details of your last orgasm: i.e. none.

And last I checked Jadis wasn’t asking you to accept shit. She’s saying “KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF OTHERS’ AFFAIRS”. Is someone walking up to you and saying “these are the reasons for my obesity”? No? Then shaddap. It ain’t yours.

In the sense that we are expected to follow laws, and, in essence, be good legislative and economic actors, yes. But conforming in terms of physical appearance? I’m not seeing how being a mature, rational adult correlates with conformity in terms of personal attributes. Celebrate diversity, indeed.

A FACT! Good lord, a FACT!! I have seen the light and it is the cold unflinching illumination of empirical data and statistical analysis!! Oh, no, wait, it’s just your opinion. My mistake (and yours).

A visual judgement, sure. With moral ramifications and normative connotations included for no extra price. Judgements of any sort are inherently subjective. Subjectivity itself implies some sort of hierarchy of preference. Morality can be said to be a separation of “good” and “bad” or in this case, “visually appealing” and “nauseating,” and a hierarchical separation of these categories themselves. Your not caring is in and of itself a visual, as well as moral, as well as emotional reaction, not any sort of measured, objective response.

Oh my. You really are quite an idiot, aren’t you?

And just why is that, may I ask? Please, enlighten me as to why it is that someone else’s misfortune arouses such ire rather than sympathy?

Affects your comfort level how? Please, I really want to know.

No, part of growing up is acknowledging the fact that you do not live in a homogenous world, and that people who are different from you are not better/worse than you. They are simply different.

And this gives you the right to judge them why? You really don’t think that obese people are oblivious to the fact that they have a problem, and wish desperately that they could fix it?

I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree with you here. It most certainly is a moral judgement. You are judging someone’s character and worth solely on their appearance.

Did you miss the extensive middle part of my OP where I detailed the reasons why it is folly for you to try and judge someone by their appearance? Did you miss the part where I pointed out that you have no idea where any particular person is on their own personal path to wellness? That the person you’ve taken it upon yourself to judge may, AT THAT VERY MOMENT THAT YOU’RE JUDGING THEM, be in the midst of an effort to control or improve their weight?

How magnanimous of you to acknowledge that some people have an “excuse” for being overweight. Now, please…do tell me how you’ll identify simply upon viewing someone in public with no prior knowledge or experience with that person, which people are given a pass because they have an acceptable (to you, of course) excuse for being fat and which ones are deserving of your derision because they have no excuse, they’re just big fat pigs. Oh, you can’t? Gee…imagine that.

You do realize, don’t you, that it’s precisely those people that are morbidly obese that are the MOST LIKELY to be the ones with an “excuse” (as defined above) for being fat, such as handicap, medication, health problem, etc? People who are only slightly/moderately overweight are the ones who have the best chance at reversing it. They’re the ones where a few too many burgers and nights on the couch packed on a few pounds, and the ones who, with a moderate effort, will probably be able to shed the pounds away again.

And “being a fat slob” doesn’t make you handicapped? What’s your definition of handicapped? You act as if people with serious weight problems can just realize they’re overweight, jump up and run a fucking marathon. Reversing severe overweight is a LONG process. How do you know that the “fat slob” you’re looking at isn’t currently involved in an exercise program to try to regain their health and wellness, within the limits of their current physical state. Oh, you can’t? Gee…imagine that.

Wow. We agree on at least one point. The fact that if you don’t know what someone’s going through, you should shut you fat fucking gob.

Sure, because overweight people are just nancing about, having the time of their lives, imposing on the delicate sensibilities of those with better genes. Asshole.

Fine. Don’t accept it. Remain an ignorant yutz for the rest of your life. But don’t expect me to accept that it’s right to judge someone that you know nothing…I repeat NOTHING…about.

Fuck off.

Well I’ll leave the cakehole out of it, but it’s pretty clear that the OP DOES care about the opinions of others.

If you want to talk about your appearance not being the business of others, consider how you present yourself at work.

But I’m generally not extremely distainful of the obese, although in some cases the health issues make me cringe. What I am distainful of is the sight of two obese parents buying their obese child a heaping plate of shitty junk food. That just makes me sick. Not the obesity alone, but the behaviour.

But don’t get me started on American consumption. I know in almost every way Canada is about as bad as the States, but a trip to a Portland food court absolutely floored me, simply WRT the size of the portions that are considered normal.

I just wanted to ask if you are REALLY that affected by your environs. If the mere appearance of another human being can make you sick, how on earth can you go through the day without an endless supply of those airline barf bags? (I beg your pardon: vomit receptacles.) And why do “stinky” and/or “dirty” people merely annoy you when the obese can make you ill?

Quite frankly, if your comfort level is so easily affected, it’s probably time to evaluate your sensitivity (snort) to your surroundings. Life’s tough like that.

What is there to say that what you saw once in a food court is the norm?:slight_smile:

Standardized national distribution. :smiley:

Eep. dna_man. NOT NOT NOT typo_mna.

Sorry typo.

:saph sneaks off sheepishly:

First, I don’t so much care about his opinion of me as I care about him spouting hateful bile within earshot of people who have done nothing to deserve his putrid animosity beyond merely daring to appear in public in their disgracefully overweight state. Forgive me if I find the practice of deliberately hurting people’s feelings offensive.

Second, I rather resent the implication in your second comment above that looking presentable is somehow exclusive to thin people. What makes you assume that I (or any of the people I referred to in my OP) presented myself in a slovenly manner? Is overweight synonymous with slovenliness? If that’s what you were getting at, that’s pretty offensive as well.