Why someone's appearance is simply none of your blasted business...a rant by Jadis.

The BBQ Pit
21

…did you sleep through the OP? Some people can’t control their weight. And in other cases, it’s simply too hard.

Case in point? Me. Well, not so much. I’m not morbidly obese; hell, I’m not even really that fat. But the fact remains that my weight will not go below a certain level, no matter what I do. This level–which is none of your buisness, but it is, by your own admission, nowhere near what you would consider “gross” so don’t throw THAT shit in my face–is perfectly acceptable to everyone BUT me.

I starved myself to get under the weight. I succeeded at the cost of messing up my body chemistry so badly that it took a long-ass time on meds in order to get me to some semblence of normalcy. And y’know what? By the time it was over, I HAD GAINED THE GODDAMN WEIGHT BACK. Pissed me the hell off, but what am I supposed to do, not eat at all? You kind of have to to live. Right now, I’m carrying around the freshman weight that I am trying desperately to lose. It isn’t all that much, but it’s still a PAIN IN THE FUCKING ASS. It’s slow progress. It’s a goddamn struggle. And it’s HARD. The effort that one puts into it seems so huge compared to the payoff.

Do you really think that anyone LIKES being morbidly obese? Do you think that they DESIRE gargantuan proportions? No, they don’t. They care, really, they do; they care about their own health, and they probably care about what people like you think. But some of them CAN’T lose weight, due to medical conditions or whatever. Others don’t have the discipline to stick to a diet.

Have you EVER tried to lose weight in your life? I mean, seriously, honestly, lose a significant amount of weight? If you haven’t, then you don’t know what it’s like. It’s ESPECIALLY frustrating when you’re young, and half the people you know seem to be able to eat the entire contents of a buffet without gaining an ounce. If you have tried to lose 20, 30 pounds, imagine multiplying the time and effort involved by a factor of 5 or 10 or 20. Imagine even ATTEMPTING to exercize when you have to carry around that stuff. And imagine having to deal with assholes like you who say “you don’t like being morbidly obese? then lose some weight, fatty!”

Yeah, real easy, huh? Also, realize that much of the time, and in many people, eating is linked to depression and/or depressed feelings. YOU ARE NOT HELPING THINGS WITH YOUR INSENSITIVITY!

You know, I really hate looking at chicks with facial hair (and I am a chick, so I’m not being an asshole guy). It really, really bothers me. I find it kinda gross, though I guess it doesn’t make me sick. Do I wish they would shave it off? Yeah. Do I think that they somehow have a moral obligation to shave it off, that they should conform to my and society’s idea of beauty? Nope.

Conformity is stupid. One does NOT have to “conform to the majority.” Yeah, sometimes it makes things easier, but it’s not a requirement. If it is, then I’m screwed, because I’ve never conformed to anything in my entire life, regardless of my efforts to do so.

So to is insensitivity stupid. I wish that morbidly obese people would lose weight, so that they would be healthier. I don’t think they’re under any obligation to do so, though. And I realize that a lot of the time, it’s beyond their control.

22

That is exactly the point I’m trying to make. It does affect my life. You go so far as to insult me for having an opinion, and that is exactly what I’m saying is so irritating about slovenly people. And on that note, let me clarify… it is not obesity that makes me sick, it’s when people are slobs and expect you to put up with it. Being fat and being a slob are two different things. Camryn Mannheim is not my type of girl (see below), but I wouldn’t consider her a slob, and she’s not the kind of people I’m talking about here.

I’m being candid and honest about the fact that slobs make me sick (I honestly don’t know why that is). I’m being overwhelmed by responses to the contrary and that is because of what I said before… most people feel this same way that I do, but they keep their mouths shut. That is exactly what I’m saying should happen. I am not an un-feeling pig… and excuse me for being blunt. I am sick of hearing this argument though, and we never seem to get to hear my side of it. My point is not very clear in my post, I will admit. It is hard to describe how I feel about this situation. Someone else who shares my opinion is not likely to have the balls to say so. Consider that a challenge.

BTW… I’m gay and I realize that some people are made uncomfortable by that, for similar reasons that people are sickened by fat slobs. However, I do care about the people around me, and as such, I don’t go around “forcing my gayness in peoples’ faces,” and I don’t go around telling people that they shouldn’t have they’re own opinions. If people want to hate fags… that is their own business, and I don’t fault them for it. I have the maturity to accept their viewpoint. That is what I mean when I say part of being an adult is learning to accept the majority. I’m not stupid enough to think that homophobia is just going to go away just because I don’t agree with it. And I’m not stupid enough to think that people aren’t going to be vocal about it. I’m smart enough to keep it to myself most of the time. I’m not a conformist, but I do have the maturity to realize that in most cases, majority rules.

Allow me to suggest the possibility that “R” makes jokes for the same reason homophobics make jokes… he is afraid he might be seen that way himself.

Exactly. That is the point I was trying to make.

I am well aware of the arguments against my opinions. So much so that I considered logging in as another user and responding to myself. So please don’t jump down my throat anymore. I realize my post may have sounded a bit harsh, but that’s only because I left out my feelings on the other side of the issue. I’m really ‘in-the-middle’ on this, but I’m keeping my statements firmly on one side of the fence. I’m not doing this to piss you off, rather to explore the subject, which was opened up for discussion. You aksed for my opinion (or at least I thought you did), and I gave it.

I apologize for sounding insensitive. I’m not completely in the dark about this either… my ex wife was terribly obese the last few years we were together. In her case it was strictly low self-esteem and a “flip 'em the bird” attitude about society in general that caused her problem. When she got over that problem… she was able to lose the weight. I’m not saying that everyone who is overweight is in that boat. I am saying, however, that I tend to jump to the conclusion that they are in that boat, and my opinion regarding them stems from that… until I know otherwise, and then I’m more than happy to change my opinion. I may change my opinion on this issue as well, but if you people keep lambasting me with further insensitivity… well… it makes it hard to support your case.

23

Yeah, a lot of people eat too much and don’t exercise enough. Like me. The only thing that makes me different from all those “disgusting” fat people is I have a metabolism that allows me to get away with my bad habits. So, does that make me inherently more valuable a human being than those who are not similarly genetically blessed?

24

I’d like to point out that that opinion was stated by dna man, not typo mna. Lest anyone get confused.

25

For dna_man and anyone else who feels the way that he does, I have a simple question.

Here goes:

Do you honestly believe that your disapproval with how someone looks obligates them to refrain from appearing (or, god forbid, eating) in public until they’ve achieved a weight and body shape more pleasing to your discerning eye?

You see, from what I’m hearing, it seems as if those who don’t meet this nebulous attractiveness criteria should be confined to their homes, out of the public eye, and not emerge until they meet a minimum standard of acceptable size. Because, of course, it would be presumptuous of them to force their unattractiveness on an unsuspecting public whose own attractiveness level gives them automatic rights to come and go as they please, completely unmolested by the disapproval of others. These attractive people have rights, dammit!! The right not to be made physically ill by the shortcomings of others!! Is there no justice?? Please, won’t someone think of the children??

I anxiously await your reply. I’m breathless with anticipation.

26

Thank you, Geobabe, for clarifying a point I tried to make in my OP. Lots of people have bad eating/exercising habits, yet only those without the benefit of a good metabolism are derided and labeled “fat slob” by people like dna_man.

I see that dna_man is backpedalling now and attempting to claim that he has no problem with fat people, it’s only slobby fat people that make him sick. Gee. Do skinny slobby people make him sick? Not from what I can see. No, in his world, fat appears to be synonymous with slob.

Witness this gem:

Sure, dna_man…I’m sure that’s what’s uppermost on every overweight person’s mind. They walk out the door in the morning and say “I’m fat, and I’m going to force everyone out there to just put up with it. Put up with it, I say!!” I’m sorry…explain to me how you’re actively involved in “putting up with it” just by co-existing on the same planet with an overweight person?

Seriously…my entire point was not that everyone universally had to find overweight people attractive, but that someone’s appearance has NO EFFECT whatsoever on your life and you should therefore refrain for abusing people over it. That’s all.

dna_man, I have yet to see you address how, exactly, you are able to discern an acceptable reason for being fat from an unacceptable one in a complete stranger. Because until you illustrate to me how you can tell, I’m going to maintain once more that how someone looks is NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

27

originally posted by dna_man

Sometimes the majority is wrong.

I suppose you can’t stop people from hating whoever they want to in their hearts, but I’d say that acting on those beliefs is unacceptable, for the reasons that Jadis has so eloquently spelled out.

“Part of being an adult” is realizing that a lot of peole have ugly prejudices. However, that doesn’t mean that you have to accept those prejudices–accept their existence, yeah, but not their validity!

28

No, that is not what I’m saying. I’m basically saying the same thing you are. You’re saying: keep your mouth shut about my weight. I’m basically saying: try to understand where “R” is coming from and do exactly what you did and keep your mouth shut about his sick jokes.

The sad thing is that I’m really a nice guy, and I’m sorry if I seem a little insensitive. I’m not “against” overweight people, I am just not conscious of their issues they face in everyday life (one of which is a widespread assumption that you are overweight because you don’t give a shit). Please understand that my opinion comes from a place of ignorance, not insensitivity. I have not had the opportunity to explore this issue, and I thought I would take that opportunity. I guess I didn’t know it would stir up a firestorm to try and express my opinion without wrapping it in warm fuzzies. Next time I have an opinion, I’ll try to be more ambiguous.

Also, I will admit that I misunderstood the original post. Am I correct in assuming that you basically meant “keep your mouth shut,” because what I thought you meant was something along the lines of “you are not entitled to this opinion”

And yes… I feel the same way about slobby skinny people. I’m not exactly backpedalling here… I’m trying to understand the issue… trying to be sensitive. HELLO… GAY DUDE HERE… when I’m not busy cleaning the house I’m crying at movies… OK? :smiley:

29

I wish I was that eloquent… I see you understood my point though you state in a much better way.

30

I’m just gonna throw this out there.

Jadis - Why don’t you just not go to lunch with this guy anymore? Or if your going with a group of friends and he happens to come along maybe you might wanna tell him those comments bother you and are rude. Just a suggestion…

31

You almost have my position correct…yes, I want people to keep their mouths shut about others’ appearances. The reason I want this is because, as I’ve tried to explain, judging someone’s character or worth based solely upon your visual inspection of their appearance is flat-out wrong. The reason it’s wrong is because you simply do not know why that person looks the way that they do.

Allow me to offer an example. Let’s say that you see an obese person in a restaurant. Because this person is obese, you judge this person is a weak-willed, disgusting slob. Now, assume that one week ago, this obese person embarked on a medically approved diet and exercise regimen. S/he has stuck to it diligently and has lost 5 lbs and is now able to walk on the treadmill for 15 full minutes, where a week ago, s/he could barely walk from his/her house to the mailbox. The obese person sees him/herself as a winner, having passed the first milestone in their journey to a healthier life.

Is this person the weak-willed disgusting creature that you judged him/her to be? If not, why not? My point here is that without the knowledge of what this person is doing, or has done in the past, with regards to their health and wellbeing, you have absolutely no indication just by looking at him/her whether your judgement of them was correct. Hence, it might be in everyone’s best interests to just reserve your judgement on people you simply DO NOT KNOW.

If that’s the case, then honestly…I hope this dialogue is changing that perception. I really do.

You don’t have to wrap your opinion up in warm fuzzies to be taken seriously. All that you have to do is try to avoid stating opinion as fact (which tiggeril so graciously pointed out :D) and illustrate your viewpoint with reason.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, regardless of how misguided. My issue is R’s complete lack of sensitivity and tact.

32

There are tons of people who have the good fortune not to have a constant battle with their weight. I am surrounded by people all day every day who eat the same food I do, do the same(or less) work that I do, and maintain “normal” size. They are the lucky ones.

I know exactly what it takes to get my weight under control, I’ve done it. In 1987 I went from 340-345 lbs to 185. It took five constant months plus of eating food I hate, in quantities which were too small, and five miles plus of running a day.

During all that time, I was surrounded by people who ate and drank everything they wanted and gained not an ounce.

I stayed at that weight until I started doing field engineering, (about five years) and my weight went right back up, due to returning to “normal” eating and little exercise.

Anyone who is “normal” sized and “disgusted” by “fat slobs” has no real idea what it is like to fight that battle, and those of us fighting that battle on a day to day basis are sick to death of it. Maybe if I could trade metabolisims with some of these folks, and they realised it’s not a simple matter of “being concerned about our health” they’d shut the hell up.

But I doubt that will never happen. Few people if any “choose” to be overweight. Each and every one of us would much rather “choose” to weigh less. If “choosing” were all that was required, I’d be slipping into those 30" waist jeans right now.

It’s a battle. To people who have never had to fight it it’s a bloody difficult battle, and it doesn’t involve “eating salads”. It involves total and abject misery where it relates to extra exercise we must do, and meals we must miss, beers we can’t drink, life we can’t live because we are fighting an enemy that most people can and will never understand, and don’t even believe exists.

Take any of the posts above and do search and replace. Start out by taking “fat person” “fat slob” and replace them with “N___er”. See if you find them offensive. Then try using “F__got”. Does that get to you? I can as much choose not to have my metabolisim as someone can choose not to be black, or gay, but it’s okay to be “disgusted” by me, and pass judgement on something innate to me which I cannot change any more easily than someone can change their sex. Is it possible? sure. hell, I’ve done it. Is it the most difficult thing I’ve ever done? you bet. Would I love to do it again? sure, and I try, but it’s such torture that most people cannot even imagine. Do I have to put up with someone dissing me because I’m fat? well, people can take all the shots at me via email, posts, etc. that they want, and they often do. I tend to ignore these small minded morons.
In person, people realise that, at least in my case, “fat” doesn’t equal “weak”. Calling someone who can toss a caber “fatso” is a good recipe for expensive dental work. (though I’m not in the practice of losing my cool)

b.

33

Ok I have to throw in my two cents
My name is Tiffany and I have Pcos- and I am overwight. I got up to 377 lbs before i was diagnosed. No one knew what was wrong-espescially me. Before the diagnosis i tried eating less, fat counting, calorie counting, eating nothing but veggies, every thing i could think of. I gained weight. The people around me were not so nice, told me I had to be eating cookies and chips, going to secret buffets, stuff like that. When I got diagnosed, i changed my diet to be more acceptable for someone with insulin resistence and lost 100 lbs. I am still on the way to “thinnyness”. Does that mean that I want to hear on the street how fat I am? They should have seen me before. They know nothing about me. I hate people who just assume I overeat-or that i overate to get this way. I agree with the op- keep your traps shut. Atleast til I am out of hearing distance :smiley:

34

Maybe this is the reason for dna_man’s irrational hatred. He seems to have a few “issues”

JB

35

Hey, Deadly Nightlight, welcome to the boards. Quick question: what’s Pcos?

36

I tend to find women of natural proportions much more attractive than, say, these hollywood idiots who got themselves down to a size zero, couldn’t possibly bear a child, and look like they suffer from severe anorexia. And I’d like to point out that by natural proportions I am refering to those women that society at large seems to consider HUGE. I’m writing this to point out to dna_man that he is WAY overgeneralizing when he says that

I am also aware of the fact that I am most definitely NOT the only man to hold this opinion. Like I said Jadis, I don’t know if this is particularly relevant to the conversation but I needed to point out that not all men (or boys in dna’s case) are insensitive unrealistic bastards. Gimme a REAL woman any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

P.S. My wife is what dna_man probably considers grossly overweight. My response? She’s pregnant you ignoramous. And if “everybody” is so grossed out by obesity then how come everybody always says pregnant women are beautiful. Explain THAT!

Buliwyf

37

PCOS stands for PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrom…here’s a link that explains the most common characteristics, which include difficulty or inability to lose weight related to severe insulin resistance.

38

Aha. Got it. Thanks, Jadis.

39

** dna_man**, so, because you’re gay, it’s okay for you to pick on others-because, after all, you KNOW you’re not a jerk?

:rolleyes:

Deadly Nightlight-cool name, btw, welcome! Hang in there, sweetie! Most of us are NOT like the ignoramus above.

** dna_man**-just remember, it’s better to have fat thighs than a fat brain.

40

Welcome to the boards, Buliwyf. Your point is certainly relevant in that sweeping generalizations on what people find attractive or offensive are generally…well…wrong. :wink:

Honestly, my rant is not aimed at demanding (or even encouraging) people change their standards of what they find attractive. I’m not nasking anyone to marry that overweight woman at the buffet, but it would sure be nice if she wasn’t subjected to snickering behind her back and comments within her hearing about what a disgusting thing she is. All I’m asking anyone to do is to please refrain from judging someone badly based on woefully incomplete information, because as long as all you have to go on is your visual inspection of a person, your information is, in fact, incomplete. Billy Rubin and Deadly Nightlight prove my point for me again and again. :slight_smile: